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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:26 PM
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No log book or medical card just the number. They will just care what you have for tonnage on your plates not some warranty rating the that Ford put on your truck but you have to be sensible when it comes to loading your trailer and truck.

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Old 02-19-2012, 09:30 PM
livewire_19 livewire_19 is offline
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So I will need an 11 ton number on my plate?
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livewire_19 View Post
So I will need an 11 ton number on my plate?
I don't know how KS handles it but in Nebraska you plate the truck for the max weight it's going to carry and the same with the trailer or you can plate the truck for the combined weight. The only way to know for sure is call the state or just wait until you get stopped and pay the fine and have the DOT guy explain the rules to you.

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Old 02-21-2012, 07:08 AM
dmanlyr dmanlyr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livewire_19 View Post
Okay so yes I do need a number. What else do I need to go along with that? I.E. logbook, medical card, and such. What do those things involve?

Edit- Also my truck is rated to pull 12500 lbs would I get fined if I pulled 14000lbs?
To clarify, Ford does not rate YOUR truck to tow 12,500 lbs. It is always a "will tow up to" as Ford has no idea of how your paticular truck is optioned as well as the load that your truck has on it.

Three things you need to be concerned with here - from a legal standpoint as to YOUR trucks capacity.

#1 Your axle capacities and staying within them. Refered to as GAWR's

#2 Your trucks GWR and not exceeding it.

#3 Your trucks rated GCWR and not exceeding it.

Basicly in a nutshell, your GCWR is FIXED at a number by Ford. If it is say 19k, then if your truck is loaded to its max at say 8800 lbs, the MAX trailer you can tow legaly is 11,000 lbs, REGARDLESS of what Ford rated your truck to "tow up to". The only way that you can tow the maximum trailer weight is to get the truck weight down in this case.

I am using these numbers as a reference, you will need to figure out your paticular trucks GAWR's, GWR & GCWR

Now yes, you can licence your truck at 26k or whatever you want, that does not mean that you can legaly weigh/tow that much. Here in the state of Washington, it wil let you waste as much extra money on licencing for unusable weight as you want, it is just free money to the state.

Please note that the GAWR's and the GWR are legaly binding and set numbers for your trucks certification. Black and white. Period. You cannot change them by changing axles, springs, tires or anything else. They are set by the manufacture (Ford) or incomplete vehicle manufacture (in the case of a licensed shop installing a drop axle on a semi, or motorhome manufacture who buys a incomplete vehicle and is licenced to certify the weight certification plate). The saftey certification plate is required by law to list the GAWR's and the GWR along with your trucks VIN.

The GCWR is a recommended number, exceding it may or may not result in a ticket (depending upon your state), but exceding it and having the overloaded condition cause a wreck or collision can result in insurance issues as well as criminal action in court in the case of property or life damage. The GCWR is NOT required to be on the certification label and is found in your owners manual.

David
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:59 AM
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You did state in a previous post that you would never leave the state of Kansas correct? If you are only in KS you are not an interstate carrier but instead are inTRAstate. KCC will give you all the info you need on your setup! Go to KCC's website and on the left hand colummn they have a section to cover motor carriers.

Using your setup in commerce, and being over 10,001 pounds you are a CMV so you will be bound by the KCC rules.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:08 PM
livewire_19 livewire_19 is offline
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@HideoutJP
So after reading over kcc regulations, after I file for a DOT number I also need to register with the kcc, correct?
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:13 PM
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@dmanlyr
Some specs of my truck.
5,455 lbs. Curb weight
3,112 lbs. Front curb weight
2,343 lbs. Rear curb weight
8,800 lbs. GVWR
3,500 lbs. Front GAWR
6,084 lbs. Rear GAWR
3,345 lbs. Payload
4,850 lbs. Front axle capacity
6,084 lbs. Rear axle capacity
3,200 lbs. Front spring rating
6,084 lbs. Rear spring rating
6,084 lbs. Front tire/wheel capacity
6,084 lbs. Rear tire/wheel capacity
12,500 lbs. Towing capacity
7,650 lbs is the actual weight completely full of tools, passengers, and gas.

Based on these how much would you say I can legally and safely haul?
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2012, 03:04 PM
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I was thinking the KCC registration route as in intrastate carrier. But yes, you are on the right track. The legally and safely capable question I would go with the sticker. As a business you wouldn't want that liability on your shoulders should something happen. I wouldn't even want it personally but I read all too often how much guys tow "and dont even know it is there".
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2012, 04:43 PM
dmanlyr dmanlyr is offline
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According to the 2001 trailer towing guide, your truck, with the 7.3, regardless of transmission type, rear axle ratio, 2wd or 4wd, SRW or DRW, regular cab, super cab or crew cab has a GCWR of 20,000 lbs.

Taking your loaded weight at 7650 lbs away from that "recommended" maximum GCWR (remembering that only the GAWR's and the GVR are absolute numbers) you have a theroretical towing capacity of 12,850 lbs before you venture over into the "gray" territory, "unrecommended" and if the overloaded condition has a hand in collision may mean that someone else owns your home.....

That said.

#1 I do not see your loaded individual axle weights. It is important to weigh both the front and the rear LOADED. While it is advisable to carry at least 10% of your loaded trailer weight as tounge weight, it could be possible that you do not have that much rear axle capacity left ?? Unless you have a DRW, then I doubt that you are exceeding, it is the SRW models that run out of rear axle weight capacity mostly.

#2 For 2001 Ford has a 10k limit on bumper pull trailers due to hitch limitations (as stated directly by Ford in the 2001 trailering guide). You will need more that the factory standard hitch.

#3 Is your truck STOCK height? If not then your towing goes down as the lift goes up.

#4 Are you using a drop hitch insert? If so, then your factory hitch rating goes DOWN as the drop (or rise) increases as it has a negative leverage effect on the hitch.

#5 As mentioned, brakes are a must

#6 A equalizer hitch and sway bar are probaly one of the best investments you can make on a bumper pull of that weight.

So you CANNOT pull 14k behind your truck, without venturing into the "gray, unrecommended area" that the DOT and a good laywer can use against you. UNLESS you get a lighter truck - think 2wd regular cab, OR reduce your load in the truck.

I will add this as well, if you think stepping up to a 2001 F350 will help, that is not the case as both the F250's AND F350's (with the 7.3 or the 6.8 w/4.30 gears) have the same recommended 20,000 GCWR. This is something than many misunderstand. Newer F350 are rated at higher GCWR's than F250, but that is much newer.

I hope this helps, I have steered away from your paticular states rules in this discussion as state laws by federal rules/laws have to be as stringent as the federal DOT rules, but in many states (Washington included) there are many more restictions.

David

**edit** Not to seem like a smart you know what, but whe talking DOT stuff, curb weight is refered to as "tare" weight.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2012, 11:37 AM
magnumacF250 magnumacF250 is offline
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your best bet for answers is to stop at a scale and ask the person working it all these questions. every state is different to some degree. I didn't read the link given, but my opinion is if you bought the scrap from someone and you are hauling it, you are not commercial. if you are hauling it for a portion of the proceeds, you would be. Here in MT, if your GCVW is over 14K you are supposed to weigh. most rv's don't and get away with it. I'm running my kenworth at over 115,000 lbs most of the time and do not require a CDL or DOT stickers because I'm not commercial, but they do look a axle weights and bridge law compliance.
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2012, 08:19 PM
livewire_19 livewire_19 is offline
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@dmanlyr
The truck is stock height with a 1" rise on the hitch. And I do not have individual axle weights. just ran my truck and trailer across a scale to see what it was. I am new to this so bear with me. How do I weigh each axle and tongue weight?

@magnumacF250
I am going to talk to my DOT I just started this thread to get a general idea of what to ask them.
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2012, 08:24 PM
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Go to a cat scale at your local truck shop. Scales will do each axle independantly and give you the total.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2012, 08:45 PM
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When you pull up on the scale, just do one axle at a time. Preferably without the trailer and your truck loaded as you normally would.

Now hook up your trailer and see how the rear axle loading changes.

Or I guess you could just leave the trailer hooked up and weigh your front and rear axles individually, of coourse you have to keep in mind that any load you put on the trailer will affect the tounge weight, so if you are at say, max or close to the rear axle GAWR, then you may have to load the trailer more to the rear... say when loading a tractor, I will move it further back on the trailer if the truck carring more of a load in the dump insert/box to ease the rear axle loading.

BUT without proper tounge weight your trailer can become unstable so go slow at first and if you are running a lighter tounge weight than recommended, do not attempt any "whip" manuvers nor any twisty roads at speeds. Go slow and give your self a lot of braking room. NO fast steering movements - use both hands braced against each other so you don't inadvertently move the wheel. You do NOT want to look out your drivers window and see your trailer next to you!!!

Kind of like driving a CDL double or triple trailer rig.... Here in WA we don't have triples, but on doubles you are only allowed 6" of rear trailer sway. Anymore and you can be pulled over and ticketed.

If you do this right, and you are asking the right questions, you will be able to drive your entire career without causing a accident or collision. You might even make it thru without a ticket... maybe

I have been stopped at scales and inspected, but never failed and the one time I was ticketed for not having a PUC permit in Oregon, it turned out I was right and I did NOT need one as I was simply ferring a not in service 70bbl vac truck (class B) thru the state. Of course there was no sense arguing the case at the scale house, so when I called for a PUC permit, all the gal said was "what did he ticket you for? You were right" and the ticket was dismissed without going to court or anything else.

Knowing the rule bool inside and out for our state is the best defense you can have.

Remember at the scale house you are talking to the Gods (sometimes, not always there are certainly the most helpful people working there that don't want you to loose business / money, but then there is always that one!!) and that is the place to point out the rules, but NOT augue them. It is better to submit for the time being and continue your trip rather than get your rig tied up and have to have to have it and the trailer towed.

D~
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2012, 11:02 PM
livewire_19 livewire_19 is offline
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I am trying to go my career without tickets and violations. And no accidents.

So CAT scales have 3 platforms that will weigh each part of the truck and trailer? Or as dmanlyr said can I weigh each axle on any scale?
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:05 AM
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cat scales can do it all at once. Just make sure each axle is within the box. It is quite straight forward.

Pull on the scale, hit the button for the attendant and then she will direct you off. Go inside pay your 9 bucks and get your certified wt.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:05 AM
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