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  #1  
Old 01-26-2012, 05:14 PM
n.c.-deerhunter n.c.-deerhunter is offline
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Need a Ford 2.9 guru.Ranger is throwing a fit.

Hello, I got a question to a Ford 2.9 guru. Got a 86 Ford ranger that come to me and would not start. First thing I found is that it had a Mr.Gasket high pressure pump on rail that was not working. I then found neither pump was working. Traced it to faulty EEC relay. Fixed that now I have fuel pump operation at all times. Got this thing finally running. The owner has put a PCM, wires, FP reg, battery, low pressure fuel pump to try and get this thing running. Now that I have it running I have noticed that all of a sudden it will go to pouring black smoke, running rough and carrying on.

I had a Bronco II do this one time and it was the o2 sensor causing it. But my main concern is that after you let it run a while and it is hot you can shut it off and try to restart it and it wont hit a lick. Just spin, spin, spin. Let it sit for about 5 minutes and it will start back up. I had someone here yesterday helping me spin so I could check and this is what I discoverd. When it would not start it had no sprk but the pumps would run and had pressure but no spark. When you turned the key off the coil would arc. So I said this is a module problem. Pulled this distributor today and put a pick up coil and new module in it. And the same thing, you shut it off when it is hot and it will not start back up until you let it sit.

I did check the ECT connector for corrosion and found none. It has no DTC's stored in KOEO or KOER or keep alive. Man I'm stumped. I am going to try it again and hook up a noid light and see if I am getting injector pulse next. I am just wondering if the o2 sensor is shorting out and taking away a refrence to something after it has been shut off? I don't know what the heck to do next. If any Ford Techs or anyone who has had this happen have any input it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks..
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:34 AM
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The O2 sensor is in operation only after the engine goes into 'closed loop' operation at full operating temperature. It will 'trim' the fuel mixture for optimum combustion, but not likely cause it to go to 'full soot mode'. That would be either a faulty injector dumping gas, or a regulator deciding it was not going to regulate or too high pressure from the pump that overpowers the regulator. I would check fuel pressure first, max, and then regulated with and without the vacuum line disconnected.
You may have too much fuel in the intake and it is getting flooded. Pull the easiest plug after it won't fire and see if it is fouled.
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:40 AM
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Boy you folks have been busy on this one. I'm no 2.9L guru & like tomw idea, but lets think about this some more. Seems to me you may have more than one problem, with spark also going missing after it warms up. That sorta smacks of you maybe also having a coil, or ICM, ect, problem, with spark going missing after it warms up, then coming alive after cooling down some.

SO, after checking fuel pressure & regulation & putting them right as tom suggested, maybe with the engine cold, try & induce a spark failure using a heat gun, hair dryer, ect, on the coil to warm it up, then if no joy the ICM, to see if you can induce spark failure.
OR, if you have a spare of both laying around, substitute one at a time, to see if you can isolate which may be acting out. OR, if you have a scope, or DVM, hook it up to monitor the ICM switching of the coil to see if it goes missing after it gets warmed up.

More thoughts for consideration, let us know how it goes.
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:49 AM
n.c.-deerhunter n.c.-deerhunter is offline
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I have seen an o2 sensor cause one to go to soot. If a an o2 goes into a very low negative fuel trim the pcm will richen the mixture to satisfy the lie telling o2. But the o2 does not respond to the dump and it still has a low negative fuel trim. And then all of a sudden it will clear up. In my 22 years turning wrenches I have only seen this one other time and that was with a Jeep 4.0. It would go into a very low negative fuel trim and start dumping fuel. Even so bad the converter would turn cherry red. and then all of a sudden it would clear up. But I would agree that I have 2 different problems. The dumping issue and then turn it off hot and have a no start immediately after I shut it off and try to start it back up. I would not say it is the coil due to the fact that it will throw a spark when the switch is turned off and on. He came and got it for now to put the bed back on it. When I get it back and check it again I will let you know what I find. I am going to do what Tom said and check for a possible sticking regulator and see if pressure really fluctuates way out of range.


OH, If anyone could tell me, on the passenger fender apron which plug in does the time delay relay go to. You have the EEC and the time delay relay. I want to make sure which one goes to which. Alldata is not clear on it. At least I could not find it anyways. One is green and the other is black. Thanks guys....
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:00 PM
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One other thought is that the ICM may be not 'exactly' what you expect. The thick film dealies all have a 'start' position or circuit to fatten the spark when cranking which may or may not be what you expect. I would double check to make sure that you have the correct one. Having spark when flipping the ignition switch from on to off is expected given the circuit.
I don't have an 86 manual, but do have one for my 85. What time delay and EEC relays are you referring to on the drivers side? I don't have that on the 2.3 EFI I have.
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:16 PM
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My '86 has two relays on the passenger side fender. I suspect the rear one is the fuel pump relay, since that's the one my mechanic "McGuyvered" back together when my fuel pump stopped. My wiring diagrams show only two relays, so the front one has to be for EEC, by default.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:07 PM
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If original equipment, the fuel pump relay is green, the EEC relay is brown.
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:19 AM
n.c.-deerhunter n.c.-deerhunter is offline
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Thanks critter, and I'll check to make sure that this is the right module when I get it back. Of course his dad give him the truck cause it quit running and he could not fix it and they installed a reman PCM. If you have installed many reman PCM's, man it's a toss up rather it is good or not....
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:46 AM
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my experience is that the PCM will stay in "limp" mode until it sees signal from the O2 sensor or about long enough to just get you halfway to where you are going. the MAP sensor will make it really rich, but that signal isn't used until closed loop. Throttle position sensor being dirty could be an issue, but I think it is fuel pressure. Does the HP pump cycle?

finally: the infamous "ground" problem: if the engine compartment is really dirty, suspect a ground to be not working including the connectors on the brake cylinder side of the engine compartment.

forward relay in mine was ecm, middle was fuel pump and rear was A/C.
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:23 PM
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The TFI module on the distributor drives the coil directly. You could unplug the computer, and it will still make a spark.

There are two wires supplying power to the coil. One is a resistor wire on the Run possession, and the other is a direct wire to the coil, and it's supplied by the Start position.

Try this next time it does not start; Leave the key on run, go over to the starter solenoid on the passenger side fender. There will be a little red wire that just pushes onto the solenoid. Pull that wire off, and jump Battery + right to the little post. It should crank over. Make sure it's in neutral/park and the parking brake is set before you try this though.

If it starts, I suspect the "Start" wire to the coil is broken, or the ignition switch is faulty. If it doesn't, then the ignition coil might be breaking down when it gets warm.
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:23 PM
 
 
 
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