While we're on this topic tangent... here are some pictures from both the 09 Tundra and the 11 F-350:
(Because I'm one of those 'This thread is worthless without pics' guys...)

SD Frame Thickness


SD Frame C Outside Width


SD Boxed Frame at front end


Tundra Frame Thickness


Tundra Frame C Outside Width


Tundra Boxed Frame at front end


Of all the things I didn't like about the Tundra... frame strength or perceived lack thereof was never, ever a concern. Frames have to have flexibility designed into them.

Competition between automakers makes a better product for the consumer and advances technology for the industry as a whole.

 

I seriously looked at the tundra in 2007. 9 times out of ten I could use an f150 or tundra to tow a trailer to work, I only go heavy once in a while with my camper and the occasional big job needing a big trailer full of gear and equipment.

So, I crawled around underneath an F250 and a tundra. The suspension and brakes, wheels, and hardware difference is pretty remarkable. The SD as compared to the ram and GM equivalents is also remarkable when you look at the suspension parts.

Our SD trucks are the heaviest built pick ups available. I could do what I do with a 1/2 ton truck but the SD handles everything so much better and will last much longer with daily use. With my truck I am using it at 50-80% of its capability, a 1/2 ton would be running 80-100% of its capability. Over the long term I would rather use something lightly rather than using the max capability of something else.

These SD trucks are the best available, no doubt. The engine is only part of the equation. The ford SD is the best choice if you are looking for trailering, handling, longevity. It does everything better because it is engineered better than any other truck in its class. Even if the engine is questionable, it's not what makes the truck.

I am on Epics team. I choose to accept his take on this, I view him as a role model in a way even though I'm probably a little older than him. What he posted and how he wrote it are spot on with my feelings on these issues.

 

Ford almost convinced me to try the 6.7, because of all the "easier to service" parts. Glad I don't have to worry about these high dollar failures with the V10. No offense meant to anyone with a 6.7, but as a business decision, (and most bad failures in cab & chassis) I'm happy I stuck to the V10. Companies are buying them like crazy here. For tow trucks, they are selling 60-70% V10's and 30-40% diesels here.

 

I agree...I watched all the HD to HD videos on the GM site where they showed the duramax against the super duty in frame flexing etc. It didn't fare well.

 

You can multiply that times 10 or more for the ones we don't know about. I don't have the break down of diesel and gas but in 2011 there were over 584,000 F-series PU sold. Even if only half were diesel plus those sold in 2010, it is still an extremely small number.

The issue of fleet was already discussed and thought to only be a way out without admitting anything directly.

I think I will go play the lottery, I have a better chance of winning.

 

FYI - on a recent KTP factory tour, a automotive magazine editor was told 2/3rd of the SD's built have 6.7L engines.

 

Agree with Epic.

I hate to see Rickatic and Randito have to go through this. I am sure there are others who aren't members who have went through similar pains with FMC. I am on my 4th PSD (1 7.3, 2 6.0's and now a 6.7) I have have been extremely happy with all of them and nothing i read on these threads would make me go sell my truck and buy something else.

 

After having my 7.3 for 10 years, im not afraid of this 6.7.

 

You don't want frame flexibility, you want the suspension to flex. The reason Toyota frames flex more then the Fords is, Toyota crossmembers are riveted in place, rivets flex and Fords are welded in place. Much less expensive to rivet rather then place weld guns in assembly stations and maintaining them. I did this for more then 35 years, building tools and dies along with assembly line fixtures for Ford.

 

Less expensive is the key word here.

I'm not going to get into another discussion about frame flex but we should start seeing welded boxed frames on semi trucks pretty soon then.

 

x2 ditto!


biz

 

Not trying to be a bitch here, Rick, but really, what would you have us do? Should EVERYONE that ever bought one of these trucks just give it back? I mean seriously!!!! What do you want from us?

We are fully aware of what happened, we think it's a crying damn shame that they didn't cover your fuel pump - but we're not stupid and turning a blind eye! I think many of us have probably started using additive as a precautionary measure because of your story (I know I have), we've checked with our insurance (and in some instances, changed carriers) to see if we're covered in case of a failure that comes into question - so what else would you have us do???? Run for the hills, arms waving and shouting of the imminent failure of every 6.7 on the road?

I think that at this point it will suffice to simply tell others, "This has happened to me, be forewarned that there is a slight chance it may happen to you. You may want to consider this......" Telling your story is one thing, to contine the derogatory comments in regards to the rest of the members here is just - done. Way. Over. Done. Tell your story, please continue to do so, continue to blame and shame Ford. But stop with the cemetery crap. Please?

 

Wow, Pam, take a deep breath...first, I have never told anyone to sell their truck. That would be a bit much...even as angry as I am at Ford. The only person that is selling his truck so far is me...and after my visit to the 2012 Auto Show, the Dodges are looking good as long as they go with DEF in 2013.

Second, I have never said or implied that the major problems are large in volume...but they are out there. To say otherwise is pure denial. Ford's track record for sticking it to the customer when they can is certainly factual. My comments about "whistling" are only to make sure that any owner of these trucks knows they are vulnerable to a "Ford Shameful Event". Would you dispute that statement? Now that Randy's event has been resolved in his favor, are other Ford travesties to be forgotten? Not on my watch...

Lastly, please explain how pointing out these facts is derogatory to the members here. I have mentioned no one by name. I have spoken in generalities. I have defended my position when brought into the discussion. Ford's behavior in regards to warranty denials has been "Shameful". JMO YMMV

Shame on Ford...

Peace

 

This is a possibility this issue will happen to a dodge, a chevy, and ford. No one is immune with crap ulsd. But we all have learned a valuable lesson. If a dodge fails then what? Or a duramax? I thank you for what I've learned. But it's time to move on.

In addition why so hung up on a dodge if it has DEF? those systems are far from failure.

 

I think Rick is saying he'll buy a Dodge if Cummins decides to offer a DEF solution.
Currently, they don't have a DEF solution but must meet the EPA requirements which can only mean excessive EGR and whatever else that kills these diesels.