So... I'm finding that this truck does not like starting when cold... at all. 1977 F250, with an unknown era 460, and a 4 barrel Edelbrock carb. It was about 5F outside tonight, and it took forever to start. Battery is fine... it turns over quite well, but it would not fire, even on ether. I had to pour gas into the top of the carb several times before it would even fire, then a few more times before it would stay running. Once it runs for about 30 seconds, it will idle without my foot on the gas, and seems fairly smooth -- though I did feel a little miss tonight, like it was running on 7 cylinders. Hadn't felt that before.

I know that 5F is pretty cold... but it's also hard to start even when it's 30F, and my 1956 two ton chevy, and the 1976 Ford Courier all start much easier than this. The Courier is usually within 3 or 4 seconds of cranking even at 0F, and it's a points and condensor ignition This 460 is almost like trying to start an old diesel... (I have a few of those and know to not even try if I don't have several batteries and jumpers ready)

First order of business is to replace the plugs/wires/rotor/cap, since they are all of unknown condition. But... it's almost acting like it's not getting fuel because it did finally start when I poured gas in there (though why didn't Ether help?) I am not sure if the choke is working on the carb... I'm considering putting a manual cable on it instead of relying on the auto. But... is there anything else anyone would suggest?

I'll report back after the new ignition parts.

Z

 

The Edelbrocks are notorious for this on the 460. The carb seems to boil the fuel out the bowl when you shut it down and it takes a lot of cranking for the fuel pump to fill the carb back up. The fuel pump on the 460 is very inadequate for the fuel demands of the 460. That is why you hear a lot of tales about the 460 vapor locking. I chased my tail for years trying to cure the vapor lock when I finally discovered the darn fuel pump will just not deliver sufficient fuel to the carburetor. I solved my problem by putting a high volume electric fuel pump on my 77. I just turn the pump on in the morning for a few seconds to fill the carb back up with fuel and the truck starts up immediately. We don’t have 5-degree weather out here but it does get down in the low 20’s and I have no problem starting mine since I added the electric fuel pump. I also turn on the pump when pulling long grades with the trailer in tow to keep the engine from suffering fuel starvation.

You might also check the choke operation. It is very important in cold weather starting as that 460 takes a lot of air and fuel.

 

Thanks.... I was wondering whether it was fuel starvation when cranking. Because the symptom is exactly the same as an old subaru that I have that has a problem with the fuel pump cutoff circuit. It won't run the electric fuel pump till the engine starts, so if there's not enough residual fuel in the carb, it won't start till you pour some gas in there... then it starts right up fine. My dad's old landrover had a manual primer pump which you always used till you saw the float bowl fill on the carb, and then it would fire right up on a 0 degree day

I can easily add an electric fuel pump in line with a manual switch for it, to prime the carb.

 

I have never had this problem, but it sounds like an electric pump might be a benefit. It is fuel definitely if it starts when pouring gas into the carb. One thing to try is fill the float bowl before cranking by pouring gas into the vent holes. I would say X2 on the choke operation, make sure this is working right when its cold. I have seen this when my choke didn't close properly on a cold day. One other suggestion is pump the throttle and watch for gas to squirt into the intake, if it doesn't then your float bowl might be dry and you need a different fuel pump.

 

I had the same problem, in ARIZONA, in colder months - Dec-Feb.

Noticed fuel dripping off the accelerator linkage from the carb (motorcraft 2160 4BBL) on my 76 F20 trailer special. Figured out it was the gasket, just got a rebuild kit from autobone and idle problem solved, mostly, but not where I would like it.

Maybe it was the gasket, maybe not - the truck had failed emissions testing that day so I decided its time to stop using the starter fluid and fix the problem- at idle testing said t was over on hydrocarbons alot, and on CO2 by enough to fail. At crusing speed, it was low on hydrocarbons, and at max for CO2.

Also noticed some missing vacuum hoses under the air cleaner - changed all of them for the heck of it and the PCV, but still haven't figured out where those vacuum hoses go.

 

I mash the pedal once to set the choke and it fires right now! Loosen the 3 screws around the choke and rotate the cap till you are on 1 1/2 - 2 notches past the arrow. (whatever direction that closes the choke) Now push on the accelerator(or use you hand to open the throttle) The choke should close and the fast idle cam should hold the thottle open a hair. It should start. When you move the throttle gas should squirt out the nozzle above the throttle plates. If no fuel, then either there is no gas in the carb or the accelerator pump is bad. You should see the choke slowly open as it heats up. After 5 min or so it should be fully open.

 

I've found that if I pour a bit of gas in the carb, it'll start right up, even in the cold. And after replacing some cracked fuel lines, it runs fine now -- but still won't start without the pouring of the gas if it's sat overnight. Kind of just living with it that way for now... till I transplant a new engine into it.

BTW, I towed a mini-excavator up to my house with it (50 miles, 4,000 feet elevation gain), and averaged 4.6mpg Yehawwwww Had plenty of power pulling the excavator uphill even.

Z

 

I wonder if your fast isle cam isn't backed off and you are getting choke but no fast idle. This would explain the foot in the throtle thing. gas down the carb is no doubt fuel starvation, maybe the floats in that carb are way too low and not enough gas in the bowls to allow a cold start up. I would think that pumping the gas squirts fuel in the same as pouring it from a can though.

 

The later 460s had a "hot fuel handling package" that involved 2 in-tank low pressure pumps. Before I switched mine to EFI, if I let it sit more than a couple of days, I had to "cheat" by using the starter bypass on the pump circuit to fill the Holley up before it would crank up. If I didn't it would take about 2-3 mins of cranking before the float bowls filled up again.

 

[QUOTE=yewdall;11272047]So... I'm finding that this truck does not like starting when cold... at all. 1977 F250, with an unknown era 460, and a 4 barrel Edelbrock carb. It was about 5F outside tonight, and it took forever to start. Battery is fine... it turns over quite well, but it would not fire, even on ether. I had to pour gas into the top of the carb several times before it would even fire, then a few more times before it would stay running. Once it runs for about 30 seconds, it will idle without my foot on the gas, and seems fairly smooth -- though I did feel a little miss tonight, like it was running on 7 cylinders. Hadn't felt that before.

I know that 5F is pretty cold... but it's also hard to start even when it's 30F, and my 1956 two ton chevy, and the 1976 Ford Courier all start much easier than this. The Courier is usually within 3 or 4 seconds of cranking even at 0F, and it's a points and condensor ignition This 460 is almost like trying to start an old diesel... (I have a few of those and know to not even try if I don't have several batteries and jumpers ready)

First order of business is to replace the plugs/wires/rotor/cap, since they are all of unknown condition. But... it's almost acting like it's not getting fuel because it did finally start when I poured gas in there (though why didn't Ether help?) I am not sure if the choke is working on the carb... I'm considering putting a manual cable on it instead of relying on the auto. But... is there anything else anyone would suggest?

I'll report back after the new ignition parts.

B******* my engine oil my condition coil the alternator the starter plugs cap rotor are all new you're not saying anything about the engine block being cold I mean I've had several jump starts all the thing wants to do is grunt that's it