Hi,

I was just wondering if anyone has used any other 'cleaner' or detergent product then SeaFoam to suck up through a vacuum line to clean out the throttle body?

Upon pulling out my Air Intake Charge sensor (Ford's name for what is probably the AIT everyone talks about), I couldn't believe the crud I saw on the device.

Looking into the intake runner confirmed my runners are really, really black and coated (thickly).

So I've been doing some reading, and some (non-ford people) actually recommend cleaning out the throttle bodies via vacuum more often than one would use fuel injector cleaner in the gas tank. (why? the PCV system, as well as the EGR system, throws a ton of gunk into the throttle bodies)

I was just wondering if SeaFoam was the only one you guys have used, of if you've used others? (I do have a few reports of other products being used - but I'd like to see what y'all recommend/use).

Best,

 

I have used ATF ,water , powersteering fluid .
I did this to clean the carbon out of the cylender head not the intake manifold .
I am not even sure it is possible to clean the inside of the intake the way you have described . I belive you could clean it out by removing it and using T-body cleaner but I dont think it would work on a manifold that is installed on the engine , as the cleaner would'nt stay on the dirty surface long enough to remove the curd

 

Well apparently the directions from some are to suck some up (not a lot, not all at once, or you'll hydrolock the engine)(in fact SeaFoam recommends against using a vacuum line to suck it up - instead using the brake-booster vacuum line and a very slow 'pour' method so you can limit the amount of cleaner the intake gets) until the engine stalls. The last product I tried, which wasn't SeaFoam, did not stall the engine.

Now stalled or manually shut off, leave it there for 15 miinutes. Start it up and run it around for a good while until you stop smogging the area.
(Next time I think I'll do it at night so it isn't so obvious that the 1-mile long cloud is being created by me.)

Leaving it sit in the runners gives the detergent time to break up the build-up.

Again, I know that SeaFoam's cleaner should do the trick. Marvel's Mystery Oil reportedly has a lot of detergents in it, so that may work as well.

GM actualy sells a formula to be vacuum-lined up, and its purpose is to clean the intake runners/plenum. I guess I could just go to a GM dealer and ask for it, but that wouldn't be true to my Ford roots now, would it?

Chas1234, ATF has a lot of detergents in it I believe, so that may work if you left it sit for a while.

Of course water would only serve to clean the carbon out of the cylinders.

Heck, when I pulled my AIT sensor out, and sprayed 4-seeconds-worth of carb/intake cleaner directly on it, it didn't really even touch the black carbon(?) buildup that was on it.

In the past I have used BG's Air Intake spray cleaner from the top butterflies, but I now see I need something more substantial than a mist spray - I need a coating of cleaner.

Best,

 

Gamma,

I too, had the level of buildup that you are talking about. When the runners get gunked to this level I really don't think anything can be done to do a good job of cleaning other than taking off the upper plenum and soaking it in carb cleaner or lacquer thinner. The gunk essentially has turned into "concrete" and a misting of Seafoam or the like simply won't have any real effect on it. With the plenum off, I blocked off the throttle body and egr ports and filled it with lacquer thinner (after I blasted it with a 3200 psi 200 deg. pressure washer). It took two days and a couple more shots with the pressure washer and even all the oven cleaner I could steal from my wife to finally get this thing clean. That heavy old buildup is downright nasty stuff. My plans is to not let it get that dirty again and run the Seafoam thru it fairly often now to keep it clean.

Randy

 

Hi PigFarmer!

(I'd call you Randy, but PigFarmer is oh-so-much-more-fun)

Yeah, based on what I was looking at on my old AIT sensor, I'd say (sadly) that you're not exagerating at all.

I reckon the whole job will have to wait a while then. Sounds like a nice summer-day/weekend project.

Did you clean below the upper plenum at all?

Best,
Dave

 

Gamma,

I had the whole motor tore down so I did clean up the lower intake too and then did a sanding roll clean-up on the runners to get rid of the casting goobers. Surprisingly tho, the lower intake didn't seem to have the thick buildup that the upper did- just a thin black film. If your upper plenum is similiar to the way mine looked, you'll find the runners closest to the EGR having the thickest buildup (mine was at least 1/4" thick) and the runners closest to the PCV inlet having less. I think the EGR is guilty for most of what you'll find. I think the runners closest to the PCV inlet don't build up as bad because the oil fumes from the PCV actually are somewhat solvent and kinda keep these washed out. (I can't remember how the I6 is set up so this'll be different I'm sure)


The bad part of taking the plenum off is down-time for your truck. A machine shop might be able to boil this stuff out to cut down on the time involved. I'm not sure what effect the chemicals they use will have on the aluminum plenum tho (you'll lose the paint too). Otherwise if you do it yourself I'd suggest starting out using oven cleaner. This stuff seemed to work about as well as anything. I could spray it in there and it stayed wet and seemed to do a good job flowing thruout the runners. Spray it in there-let it soak for an hour or so and then rinse it with hot water (pressure washer is nice). Repeat until your satisfied. The carb cleaner and lacquer thinner work too but you really got to figure out a way to block off the throttle body, EGR and vacuum ports so you can turn it upside down and fill it clear full. These solvents flash off so fast that just spraying inside has little effect on the heavy stuff.

Randy

 

Of all that I have used I liked the BG stuff the best.

You just have to spray it with the engine running. It should take about 15 minutes of constant spray. Then shut the engine off but keep spraying and let it set for about 5 minutes. Start it up and rev the engine a little bit to blow out the rest of the gunk.

 

Awesome !- thanks for the low-down.

The I-6 plenum doesn't seem to have paint on it that I can tell. Heck, if a machine shop could get that stuff out of there easier, plus perhaps clean up the casting errors, maybe I will let one have at it.

I've used oven cleaner to remove the anodizing on aluminum parts, and I have to agree that that stuff is impressive.

1/4 thick is more than disheartening and worrisome - it's downright impressive! Make me wonder what 50% of the vehicles on the road today have in 'em clogging them up.

Gosh, I'd love to do a test on this black stuff just to see what automotive solvent/cleaner, at room temperature, could dissovle the most over time. I'd like to test SeaFoam, MMO, BG's Air Intake cleaner, etc. in spots for a length of time to just see what one could get clean without taking the future plenums apart.

Have a Happy Easter!!!

These pics are after knocking off numerous chunks of black solid material (from rough handling, not from attempting to clean it), and after the initial 4-seconds of carb-choke cleaner spray I tried on it:

 

Yep, that's definitely the stuff. I was thinking that maybe we could save all this black stuff and maybe NASA could use it to coat the Space Shuttle. I don't think they'd have to worry so much about something dislodging this stuff!! Actually your AIC looks worse than mine did so I'll bet you'll be surprised what awaits you inside. Let us know how you turn out if you do a test using the cleaners.

Randy

 

All of that is a result of either:
1) insufficient PCV flow, for whatever reason. There's so much blowby that it flows backward out the breather filter, into the air filter, & into the intake.

or

2) running rich AND overactive EGR allowing the grimy exhaust back up to the plenum.

My point is that it's not normal, and I doubt "most" vehicles look like that inside.

BTW You need a new ACT there, GammaDriver.

 

Many seem to blame the PCV but I don't really think this stuff is a result of the PCV. In fact, my theory, from what I witnessed on my truck, is that most of this is from EGR. I'd tend to agree with Steve83 on #2 that a rich mix causing sooty exhaust would sure be able to cause this buildup. This stuff is similiar to what is left on the bottom of the oven after the apple pie bubbles over.

Randy

On a side note; I see that this is my 400th post. If you quit posting now Steve83, I'll catch up to you in, lessee--ummm, let me get the calculator--12 years!!

 

"insufficient PCV flow, for whatever reason. There's so much blowby that it flows backward out the breather filter, into the air filter, & into the intake"

I'm thinking that since the air filter has always been dry and clean, this would not be the problem then. I'll pull it out to see if the breather filter and/or the air filter show any signs of this theory though.

"running rich AND overactive EGR allowing the grimy exhaust back up to the plenum"

I-6's run notoriously lean, but if enough sensors went bad I suppose it could be made to run really rich. Wouldn't this be evident in the exhaust though?

I tend to agree with PigFarmer, even if he can't keep up his end of the posting around here, in that the current-day smog regulations do send PCV and EGR gunk through the plenum, and it would seem logical that this would tend to build up over time (there is, after all, nothing else going through the plenum but air, so nothing keeps the plenum cleaned). I do know that some makes/models of cars and trucks have special coatings on the insides of the plenums to inhibit such build-up, though I have to assume my truck's plenum didn't have it or it didn't work.

I know I used to put my 1988 Mazda MX-6 GT (turbo) on on only one side of the garage's floor lift to tilt it really well toward the driver's side, then I'd spray in BG's Air Intake cleaner and let a good portion of it run back out (past the butterflies and onto a rag or paper towels). It, too, always came out black, no matter how many times I sprayed it (and I believe I really should have taken that one apart), so either PigFarmer and I are doing something really wrong to our vehicles, or this would seem to be common after 80,000 or 90,000 miles.

I haven't torn apart too many of any vehicles' plenums, so I could be very wrong there.

Thanks for your input though, steve83, it certainly is something to think about.
The new ACT, AIC, or AIT sensor (whichever one you want to go by) that I installed is an all-plastic one made by Borg Warner. I am contemplating selling my old one on e-bay as 'slightly used'.

I believe that I will be taking out my EGR restrictor plate (1/8"), and will install a total-blocking plate in its place.

Best,

 

Actually, since the air inlet for the pcv is below the air filter, all contaminants from there will get filtered out by the air filter. The pcv on most engines has no filter, so any oil mist in there does tend to get sucked up. What may also cause this is most likely poorly spraying injectors, as the runners are only dirty for about the last 2". I have a 300-6EFI lower I am looking at right now, and after the bend is the only place it is dirty. It also may just tend to cake up there too- there is a difference in air flow, as the runners go from round to rectangular. Also, with these being batch-fire control systems, there is fuel-air mixture sitting in there stationary, and on shutdown.
When I was working for Penske Automotive out in Phoenix, we used this 3M fuel system cleaner. It is a 3-step system, where you clean the TB, run this other stuff through a vacuum line, and then run another bottle of stuff in the tank. Some cars were ok, but others filled the shop with smoke. I don't know if you can get this stuff on the open market, or if only shops can get it, but it does work.

 

"PUR-TEC" makes a nice 3 stage cleaning system

one goes in the gas tank, another in the oil and the last in a vacuum line. seems to work pretty good. we use a lot of it at my shop.

 

At our shop we use the 3 stage system.

Ours is equipped so the second stage can go through a vac line, through the fuel rail, or mist it into the TB

Evan