So I took my F-350 2wd dually to the alignment shop today just to have it dialled in a little bit. It pulled slightly to the left, but no other signs of problems, except that there was some play in the wheel. So I asked that they do an alignment and adjust the steering box lash to tighten up the play.

So they do those two things (alignment and steering box lash adjustment) and take it for a drive, come back and report that it still pulls left a little, play has been reduced, and mentioned my brakes seemed weak. I said I didn't think there was anything wrong with my brakes and that it seemed fine to me, so I just kinda discounted that feedback thinking they weren't used to the truck.

Since the alignment didn't take care of the pull left, they wanted to swap front tires just to make sure it wasn't a tire problem or something. They do the swap, take it for a test drive, report back that it no longer pulls left, but I need to have somebody look at my brakes. So before paying, I said let me go check the brakes out of curiosity. I don't even fire up the truck and can already tell there's a huge problem - the brake pedal is so soft I can put it to the floor with the engine off.

So I come back and tell them that the braks absolutely were not that way before and that something crazy has changed. The guy responds that he thinks tightening up the steering box has put too much drag on the hydro-boost (which also supplies power to the brakes), so he says he'll loosen it back up. He goes to loosen it back up and then the box starts puking ATF out. Now he's saying I need a new steering box because it is now leaking, the hydro-boost can't build pressure, so that's why I have no brakes.

I can't find anything on the forum here to confirm this line of thinking, other than the fact that hydro-boost is related to both brakes and steering. This shop is not a diesel shop or even a mechanic I really trust (it's just a place that does alignments for reasonable) , so I'm just posting this up as a double check to see if you guys agree with the diagnosis.

Thanks,

HRJ

 

Holy mackerel!!! I just don’t get it. We are loosing all trust in outside agencies (dealers)working on our vehicles with any kind of confidence. I tried to have them do a front end alignment and was told all my bushing, bearings and knuckles needed replacement at over 2 thousand dollars. I left, never to return. Checked them myself and all is fine.
I have no advice for ya, sorry.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with your brake boost, soft pedal is usually air in the lines, a leak, or a bad master cylinder.

I think you're being yanked around.

 

Freakin' great. Yeah, it bothers me that the pedal is soft. When you loose power on vacuum assisted brakes, the pedal is stiff, not soft. But I can't argue with the fact that there's ATF dripping out of my steering box.

 

Nah, if you're getting a leak from the power steering system, the pedal will feel really soft up to a point, and then get hard.

It won't get hard until you get it like 60-70% of the way down, though.

I had a line from the PS pump to brake master go out on me, and the pedal got SUPER soft, until I ran out of fluid, and then it was like a rock. So if it's just leaking but still has fluid in it at all, that sounds right.

That being said- you CAN damage the steering box by over tightening the lash adjustment set screw. All they should have moved it is maybe 1/4 turn, IF that. I can't imagine they could have screwed it up that quickly, though... if you over tighten it, it will usually take a while to have problems show up.

It could be that you had extra play because the box was on it's way out. In my last truck, it went out at like 113k miles. Granted, it was almost 20 years old, though.


Where is the box puking ATF from? Could be a simple matter of changing out the seal on the adjustment set screw. If it's leaking from where the pitman arm is (sector shaft? I forget), though- it's dead.

 

It's not leaking from the adjustment screw, somewhere below there that I couldn't see.

I just checked this scenario with the folks at Red Head, and they think this story is likely / feasible. They said the leaking / fluid hungry steering gear just makes the brakes have low fluid, which would make them in turn feel soft. They said the leaking seal could be at pitman arm or input shaft. Based on what I could see, it was probably pitman.

Now the question is can these wizards at the alignment shop get this swapped out and properly bled...you guys can't answer that, but I'll soon find out!

 

Well, they've had it since 9am yesterday morning. It is now after 10am here, so they'e had it 2-3 hours today. When I called at 8:30am, they said they were just finishing it up and they would call me as soon as it was done. Still no call. What are the chances this is going to turnout good? Sheesh!

 

Wish you good luck. Should of bought the redhead box and installed your self if possible.
Let us know how it works out.

Chet

 

They called me at 1:30pm (they supposedly close at 1pm) to tell me that it now needs a hose because it is leaking. I asked if that was the problem all along, and after an uneasy laugh they said they didn't know. Am I supposed to believe I blew a seal in the steering box and a hose at the same time? What are the chances of that? I bet the chances that the effing guy didn't diagnose the leak properly is higher.

You bet I wished I was doing this myself with a Red Head box! I'm going to pay for their experimentation / training and have less of a box. I'll be surprised if I don't have some other issues when this is over, ie soft brakes, a slight leak, wandering steering, etc. Unless after all this bad luck these guys just happen to pull off a miracle...I've lost all hope in their abilities. We'll see what happens Monday and what the bill looks like.

 

So I went and got the truck this evening. They ended up replacing steering box, power steering hose, and some sort of brake line related to the hydro boost. My $59.95 alignment cost me $675 (and that was after me arguing with them - it started at $792).

So I get in the truck to drive home and I notice my seat belt light stays on. I've noticed I have to kinda jiggle the button sometimes to make it pop back up, which makes the light go out, but now it stays on no matter what. And my cruise control suddenly does not operate. Are these related issues? I'm not taking it back to that shop...

 

So a little research reveals that it is an air bag light, corresponding to code 32. My horn also does not work (besides cruise control). Looks like pretty much all the threads are in agreement that a clockspring is what I need - now, how did the guys doing the steering box job cause this? Or is this just epic bad luck?

 

Looks like I'm doing better answering my own questions tonight: the clocksprings will break if the wheel is turned too far in either direction (like when disconnected to the steering gear). That's how they broke it. Idiots.

 

Wow, sounds like some luck I would have...start out with something simple and it turns into something major...Well, at least I hope the steering is better!

 

You got it right. The spiral spring needs to be centered along with the steering gear. It sounds like they were not matched up and when turned the spiral spring broke.

 

On modern cars (ahem, I don't own many of these), it's recommended that you pass the seatbelt thru the steering wheel and buckle it before removing the steering box, to prevent the steerring wheel from going around-and-around while disconnected from the box. A decent alignment shop should know this.