Anybody know where I can get a manual for a ZF5. I picked up 2 S5-42 4x4 ZF5's yesterday for quite a good deal. Couldn't pass it up. They are in pieces at the moment but I'm wanting to build one out of all the pieces I have. They both came from behind a 7.3 but one has a different 1st gear than the other. I'm assuming one is a granny gear?? Maybe maybe not. Anyways anybody know where I can get a manual on them. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...ce_manual_.pdf

here ya be

 

Thanks for that file Aune.
Does anyone know for sure, positively, if the wide ratio gas gears can be used in the diesel case.
I have read that they can and that they can't, I have just not read it from anyone that actually changed them or tried to change them.

 

what would be the advantage of having gears further apart star? do you find the diesel Zf5 too closely geared so you have to shift too soon or?
on a side note,that does sound kinda backwards in general doesn't it.close ratio one would think would be better suited for a gas to keep it's rpms up,and wider for a diesel giving that a diesel has it's grunt down low.hmm.

 

I personally like the gears better, I like the low granny and reverse, as with a load I can idle off with out touching the throttle, or slipping the clutch.

Also if I need the closer split between gears I can split them with the GV.

I also like to idle around when I am off road without slipping the clutch.
It is also easier to back a trailer in tight spots, with out going to low range.
It basically fits what I do better, but it is not for everybody, for instance plowing snow, half of your time is spent backing up, it would basically be too slow.

 

ah i see.i understand and use low range almost daily myself.i guess im just used to pulling that lever moving around to load up,up steep drives and for backing up when towing my equipment etc.
you know,if you prefer not having to pull the lever all the time,many latter ('95 + probably?) 1156 t-cases are actuated electrically,so all you need to do is push the button.id image this swap would much easier? not sure if that's what your after really,just figured id throw that out there.

 

I also like to idle around off road, this is in low range. When I had my shop, I used to push loaded semi,s in, and didn't like going to low range and then having to shift up.
It all depends on what you do, but I liked the one I had a gas tranny in way better than the several I've had with the diesel version. (talking 4spd's here)
I actually traded for a gas four spd to install in my dually when the clutch has to be replaced, but have now traded for another ZF5, if the clutch ever needs replacing, I think the motor is going to need it first though. lol

 

And I'll throw out that the biggest problem with electrically actuated transfer cases is the electrical part. You never actually know if it works or not. And when the motor dies, you're SOL as you can't change it, even better if it craps out when changing ranges and you're stuck in neutral and can't go anywhere.

I know exactly what starmilt is saying, it makes a lot of sense. 95% of the time I'm in low range its when I'm backing up a trailer (or trying to hook up to it).

As to the gas verse diesel gears, I don't know... I'm going to lean towards yes they can. Looking at the parts file, some of things seemed to be grouped depending on the gear ratio, somethings depending on the engine, somethings 4x2 vs 4x4/superduty(parking brake).
From what I can tell, there are 3 input shafts: all small block gas(wide ratio), wide ratio, close ratio. Looks like the 460 and 6.9/7.3 use the same input shaft, the difference being the gear ratios. There are only two countershafts, wide ratio or close ratio. There are also 3 front housings (bell/engine pattern), small block gas, big block gas, and diesel. There are several rear housings, but again small block gas is by itself, while the 460 and diesel can share the same rear housing (in either a 4x2 or 4x4 option)

From what I'm seeing, if the gas gears are from a 460 (big block), they should be able to swap with a diesel. You might be able to mess around with some of the gearing, however, 1st,2nd and reverse are all built into the countershaft. But you might be able to swap 3rd, 4th, and 5th from wide ratio to close ratio or vice versa. I'm saying this just looking at the pictures, I DON"T know if thats really possible.

That being said, if anyone has a 460 wide ratio gas tranny sitting around, I have a disassembled diesel tranny in my garage we could compare it to. I'll guess mine is the close ratio diesel, but theres no data plate on that one, and its too wet to climb under my actual truck to look at that one (both the same ratio).

Spare parts break down:
http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...SpareParts.pdf
Transmission break down by gear ratio and engine:
http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...nsmissions.pdf

 

As I understand it all diesels are close ratio, but there is two ratios.
I would have no use to mix and match ratios, like I said I would just split the gears if I need to with the gv.

 

Thanks everybody for the info. Aune163rd sorry I never got back to you about that T19. Been crazy busy here and then I ran across these 2 ZF5's for $150 and couldn't pass them up. Now I have one whole case and then a mid sectaion and tail section for another case (both 4x4). The bell was cracked and so was junked. Now like I said in my first post 1st gear is the only thing different between the 2 trans I have. Not sure what's up with that.

 

We may be in luck! Look at the manual that Aune sent, 3rd page down near the bottom under vehicle applications. It lists the narrow range as "diesel only" while the wide range is described as being used in BOTH diesel and gas trucks over 8500 GVW. Over on the right, the ratio chart also lists the narrow range as diesel, and the wide range as gas OR diesel applications! If this is correct, we should be able to find a diesel housing ZF with wide gear spread.

Like you, I do not care for the diesel tranny's gear placement. I have driven granny gear T18's for many years before buying my diesel and although I enjoy the synchronized first gear, I hate everything else about my diesel T19. My truck is too heavy to start out in 2nd gear without really riding the clutch. 1st gear is way lower than necessary to get the thing rolling, and the extra shift adds to the slowness and roughness of start-outs. With T18, 2nd is fine for 99.99% of start-outs, even with 1T or better loaded on or pulled. I only resorted to 1st gear with a LOT of weight on a steep hill from a dead stop, or as a crawl gear in the woods. Third gear is lower than the T18, so when you downshift to corner a rolling turn the diesel T19 revs the engine and lurches a lot more. Lastly, I have the Gear Vendor unit also, and the narrow range makes it silly to want to split the gears even more... 3rd OD is so close to 4th that what's the point?

I could just pick up a gas T18 or T19 for my project, but it would be really nice to have the ZF's 5th gear. I have my GV overdrive engaged in 4th gear at about 35-40 mph (stock 235/85/16 tires and 4:10's), and at highway speeds it is screaming for another gear. Rather than go through the hassle and expense of doing a ring and pinion swap in both axles, a ZF would provide "double overdrive" and essentially duplicate 3.08 gears plus overdrive. (If I pull this off I'll be the first to tell you what my mpg's are!... and don't forget I'm cutting my truck in half so it should finish out pretty light) It may be a real pill to locate a wide range diesel ZF, but how awesome would that be? With R/P 4:10's ZF (5.72-0.76) + BW1345 (2.74) + GV (0.78) would provide 14 gears with final outputs from 64.26 to 2.43!

 

We have a member , or at least used to that has a gv behind an E40D and 3.55 gears.
He moved I believe from cali to florida and got good mileage. I would be lying if I posted the exact mileage, but I remember it was good for an idi at interstate speeds.

 

So this is what they mean by "Nilos Ring"... :)
NILOS RINGS

In God's "spare parts break down" PDF...
http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...SpareParts.pdf
...there's a part at position 02.030 that Ford calls an "oil dam".

That part's installation is not fool proof. Mine came from the factory not
seated all the way down and caused a metal scraping noise that was
pretty much continuous, got it cheaper because of that. LOL ;)

Anyway the Ford manual makes a big deal about being sure it's seated
all the way down and I caught myself not seating it all the way down
because there's a step for it to rest against that can fool ya. :/

But being the tinkering-fool-that-I-am, and in no-hurry (looking at minor
details for the fun of it etc) I just happened to catch my mistake. Same
mistake they made at the factory and the reason for the strong wording
in the Ford Shop Manual ...is the way I figure it.

Mine had rubbed so much and for so long (187k miles) that the rubber
had turned super hard and some was chipped away and the metal was
colored from the heat. Betcha is was bad for the bearings in that ZF! :/

--------------------------

Also, the picture is wrong in assembly step #13 page 07-03B-40...

ZF manual:
http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...ce_manual_.pdf

Don't let it spook ya. LOL :) BTDT, took me a half hour to realize the
picture was wrong and not me. Got the same mistake in the '91 Ford
Shop Manual, see? ;)

Alvin in AZ

 

You didnt happen to pick those zf's up in Barrien Springs?

 

The wide ratio diesel ZF is found in the f450's, they also came with the DMF AND a sprung clutch disc... just a little odd.