Gary's 351W Build
#16
Yeah it looks like the top bolt for the alt bracket is in that damn thermactor port and it has to be bushed down from 5/8"-11 to 7/16"-14. I only ordered one reducer bushing from Summit for the AC bracket. Looks like I am going to have see if Ford can get me one quicker or cheaper. Maybe see if the tater heads at Oreilly's can even find what I am talking about. If I have to order it from summit it will take another week to get here and not to mention its Like $17.00 with shipping.
Thanks for the picture though Gary it pin pointed the area I was looking for and certainly answered the questions.
Be sure and pay attention to the heads whenever you put them back on the motor. One end should be bushed down for the accessory brackets(7/16"-14 tpi) and the other should be opened up for the 5/8"-11 which is what the thermactor port is. The good news is I bought four plug bolts(5/8"-11x 3/4" long stainless steel). I got a smokin deal on them from the bolt supplier I use. I will send you the 2 I dont need for your heads. Shoot me a PM with your address and I will put them in an envelope with a couple of stamps to get them to you if you need them. I am pretty sure you will if you are not hooking that stuff back up.
Thanks for the picture though Gary it pin pointed the area I was looking for and certainly answered the questions.
Be sure and pay attention to the heads whenever you put them back on the motor. One end should be bushed down for the accessory brackets(7/16"-14 tpi) and the other should be opened up for the 5/8"-11 which is what the thermactor port is. The good news is I bought four plug bolts(5/8"-11x 3/4" long stainless steel). I got a smokin deal on them from the bolt supplier I use. I will send you the 2 I dont need for your heads. Shoot me a PM with your address and I will put them in an envelope with a couple of stamps to get them to you if you need them. I am pretty sure you will if you are not hooking that stuff back up.
If you get in a real bind on those bushings we can make them in the lathe. We'll measure the threaded depth on the heads and cut 5/8-11 bolts about 1/8" long. Then we'll chuck them in the lathe, heads out, and drill them with the tap drill for 7/16-14 and then tap them. We won't drill all the way through to ensure they won't leak. After running them into the head with high-temp sealer on them we'll cut the heads off with a hacksaw and dress them with the Dremel. Voila! Bushings.
#17
Didn't get to work on the engine yesterday, but made progress today. Put Dykem on both the cam bearings awa the journals and installed it, turned it gently a few turns, and then pulled it. Hadn't thought about it, but the Dykem was essentially gone from the journals, probably because they are hard, but stuck pretty well to the softer bearings. A few high spots did show on the bearings, but they appear to be in square.
However, the #3 journal, the center one, still had Dykem on ~1/2 of it, suggesting the cam has runout. I put the cam in the lathe using centers and found the runout to be .001" on that journal, and less on the others. I can't find spec's on cam runout in the FSM, but did find a few hits online and they are more like .004" max. So, it looks like the cam is fine. I put it in and it does turn by hand, so I'm sure it'll seat in.
Then I installed the main bearings, rear seal, crank, and bearing caps. The crank end play measures .006", which is well within specs, so I'm happy there.
At that point I moved on to the rings and measured end-gap on all rings and cylinders. All of the compression rings were in the high teens, mostly .018", with the exception of one cylinder that came in at .023". And, all of the oil rings were in the .030 - .040" range, again within specs.
Then I got gutsy and installed the rings on a piston. Haven't done that in YEARS and it took a while. But, it went well and I put it in the block along w/the rod cap. Still had a bit of time and got another one together and in, so I now have 25% of the pistons in.
However, the #3 journal, the center one, still had Dykem on ~1/2 of it, suggesting the cam has runout. I put the cam in the lathe using centers and found the runout to be .001" on that journal, and less on the others. I can't find spec's on cam runout in the FSM, but did find a few hits online and they are more like .004" max. So, it looks like the cam is fine. I put it in and it does turn by hand, so I'm sure it'll seat in.
Then I installed the main bearings, rear seal, crank, and bearing caps. The crank end play measures .006", which is well within specs, so I'm happy there.
At that point I moved on to the rings and measured end-gap on all rings and cylinders. All of the compression rings were in the high teens, mostly .018", with the exception of one cylinder that came in at .023". And, all of the oil rings were in the .030 - .040" range, again within specs.
Then I got gutsy and installed the rings on a piston. Haven't done that in YEARS and it took a while. But, it went well and I put it in the block along w/the rod cap. Still had a bit of time and got another one together and in, so I now have 25% of the pistons in.
#19
Yes, you did mention it, and you were right!
Forgot to say that I'm keeping track of all the measurements in a spreadsheet. Gonna give it to the new owner, which I think will be a friend of my brother - the one with the new Chevy and needs a real truck. Will include not only the bearing clearances but also the cam, piston deck heights, flow results on the heads, and a calc'd compression ratio.
Sure wish I'd gotten that info on the 351M I bought!
Forgot to say that I'm keeping track of all the measurements in a spreadsheet. Gonna give it to the new owner, which I think will be a friend of my brother - the one with the new Chevy and needs a real truck. Will include not only the bearing clearances but also the cam, piston deck heights, flow results on the heads, and a calc'd compression ratio.
Sure wish I'd gotten that info on the 351M I bought!
#20
#21
#22
I like to use STP to install the a lot of the internals with. I give the cylinders a light brushing as well as the rings, ring compressor and I do the lobes on the cam. I use the assembly grease on the cam bearing surfaces. I do the mains and rod bearings with the STP as well.
A trick my 25yr mechanic neighbor taught about the piston install was to cut a couple pieces of small hose like 5/16 or 3/8 fuel hose about 1-1/2" long. Put those over the rod bolts so you dont have to worry about scoring or scratching anything up in the cylinders or on the crank. Another thing he told me to do was every time I install an engine component like a rod and piston to turn the motor over one revolution. This just makes sure that everything is doing what its supposed to. It will get harder and harder to turn over as the engine nears completion. The method behind the madness is catching something that isnt right before you get to the end of the process. If you install a piston and torque a rod then all of the sudden it quits turning or gets extremely tough to rotate then you know which one is causing the problem. This keeps you from having to guess at which one it is and then undoing half of the motor.
A trick my 25yr mechanic neighbor taught about the piston install was to cut a couple pieces of small hose like 5/16 or 3/8 fuel hose about 1-1/2" long. Put those over the rod bolts so you dont have to worry about scoring or scratching anything up in the cylinders or on the crank. Another thing he told me to do was every time I install an engine component like a rod and piston to turn the motor over one revolution. This just makes sure that everything is doing what its supposed to. It will get harder and harder to turn over as the engine nears completion. The method behind the madness is catching something that isnt right before you get to the end of the process. If you install a piston and torque a rod then all of the sudden it quits turning or gets extremely tough to rotate then you know which one is causing the problem. This keeps you from having to guess at which one it is and then undoing half of the motor.
#23
The next time I'm over there I'll get a copy and scan it I to a PDF document and send it to you. Assembly lube is actually better to use than oil. It has more viscosity than oil. This is just my opinion. I hope you have a degree wheel and a strong arm. Once the heads are on the engine becomes extremely hard to turn over. I agree with bruno about testing as you go. I didn't and had to find the right rod that was binding up. It sucked.
#24
Ok, maybe I should've explained how I'm lubing things, sealing things, and protecting things - for posterity. And btw, I'm not saying this is THE way, but it is how I am doing it.
I think I said I clean everything with brake cleaner. So, for instance, when I'm ready to put rings on a piston I wash it down w/brake cleaner first, blow it dry, and then work it. Ditto crank, cam, bearing caps, etc. And, while my shop is very tight, what's been installed or prep'd is covered or stored in trash or freezer bags over night.
I'm using Lubriplate's No. 105 Motor Assembly Grease, which is a thin white grease, for things like main, rod, and cam bearings as it will stay in there and not run or dry out - but is easily washed away by oil under pressure. I have Comp Cams cam lube for the lobes and lifters, and they say it'll stay in there for however long it is before the engine is started. Also, I have a have a pan full of 10W-30 that I dip a completed piston/ring/rod assembly into up to the piston pin before putting it into the block.
As for sealing things, I said I put the core plugs and oil plugs in with Permatex, but I didn't say which type of Permatex and there are several. I use their Super "300" Form-A-Gasket Sealant to paint the backside of the cooling system core plugs to prevent them from corroding, and also use it on the edge of the hole in the block awa the edges of the core plugs to create a seal. This stuff is sticky, messy, and hard to get off when it dries - or when it gets on you. And, as said before, for the screw-in plugs I use a PTFE-filled plumbers sealant and not Teflon tape as I don't want bits of it inside the engine, whether cooling system or oiling system.
However, for the coolant drains I couldn't use the PTFE stuff because the tapped holes are too big due to a bit of a problem I had in disassembling the engine - I couldn't get the plugs out! I stripped the internal hex out on both of them, which meant if I wanted them out I had to drill them out, and in doing so I damaged the threads in both holes. I used a pipe tap to clean the threads up, but since a pipe tap is tapered it wound up making the holes so large that the plugs aren't as tight as I want them even when run way into the hole. So, I used Permatex #2, a non-hardening sealer, to seal those plugs.
And, for protection of the crank when installing the piston, I have pieces of vinyl tubing that is a good fit over the rod bolts. But, if you cut some pieces cut them a bit longer than you think you need because it can be difficult to get them off if you don't have enough sticking out to get hold of.
Also, this might be the place to plug my engine stand. I designed it via CAD and then built it myself. It has some good features and some things that should be better, but one of the best features is the ability to lock the engine in position every 45 degrees with a pin. That lets me quickly position the deck of the bank I'm working on straight up so when I put the piston in its rod doesn't drag on the walls of the cylinder. Then I can spin it around and quickly have access to the other end of the rod to put the cap on. If you are looking for an engine stand I recommend one with 45 degree indexing.
I think I said I clean everything with brake cleaner. So, for instance, when I'm ready to put rings on a piston I wash it down w/brake cleaner first, blow it dry, and then work it. Ditto crank, cam, bearing caps, etc. And, while my shop is very tight, what's been installed or prep'd is covered or stored in trash or freezer bags over night.
I'm using Lubriplate's No. 105 Motor Assembly Grease, which is a thin white grease, for things like main, rod, and cam bearings as it will stay in there and not run or dry out - but is easily washed away by oil under pressure. I have Comp Cams cam lube for the lobes and lifters, and they say it'll stay in there for however long it is before the engine is started. Also, I have a have a pan full of 10W-30 that I dip a completed piston/ring/rod assembly into up to the piston pin before putting it into the block.
As for sealing things, I said I put the core plugs and oil plugs in with Permatex, but I didn't say which type of Permatex and there are several. I use their Super "300" Form-A-Gasket Sealant to paint the backside of the cooling system core plugs to prevent them from corroding, and also use it on the edge of the hole in the block awa the edges of the core plugs to create a seal. This stuff is sticky, messy, and hard to get off when it dries - or when it gets on you. And, as said before, for the screw-in plugs I use a PTFE-filled plumbers sealant and not Teflon tape as I don't want bits of it inside the engine, whether cooling system or oiling system.
However, for the coolant drains I couldn't use the PTFE stuff because the tapped holes are too big due to a bit of a problem I had in disassembling the engine - I couldn't get the plugs out! I stripped the internal hex out on both of them, which meant if I wanted them out I had to drill them out, and in doing so I damaged the threads in both holes. I used a pipe tap to clean the threads up, but since a pipe tap is tapered it wound up making the holes so large that the plugs aren't as tight as I want them even when run way into the hole. So, I used Permatex #2, a non-hardening sealer, to seal those plugs.
And, for protection of the crank when installing the piston, I have pieces of vinyl tubing that is a good fit over the rod bolts. But, if you cut some pieces cut them a bit longer than you think you need because it can be difficult to get them off if you don't have enough sticking out to get hold of.
Also, this might be the place to plug my engine stand. I designed it via CAD and then built it myself. It has some good features and some things that should be better, but one of the best features is the ability to lock the engine in position every 45 degrees with a pin. That lets me quickly position the deck of the bank I'm working on straight up so when I put the piston in its rod doesn't drag on the walls of the cylinder. Then I can spin it around and quickly have access to the other end of the rod to put the cap on. If you are looking for an engine stand I recommend one with 45 degree indexing.
#25
The next time I'm over there I'll get a copy and scan it I to a PDF document and send it to you. Assembly lube is actually better to use than oil. It has more viscosity than oil. This is just my opinion. I hope you have a degree wheel and a strong arm. Once the heads are on the engine becomes extremely hard to turn over. I agree with bruno about testing as you go. I didn't and had to find the right rod that was binding up. It sucked.
Forgot the part about spinning it over after each part has been installed. Luckily I've been doing that, but not because I knew I should. But, I'll keep doing it. And, I do have a degree wheel, but the arm isn't as strong as it used to be. So, I compensate with leverage.
#26
I'm using Lubriplate's No. 105 Motor Assembly Grease
But, if you cut some pieces cut them a bit longer than you think you need because it can be difficult to get them off if you don't have enough sticking out to get hold of.
#27
I like Permatex PST 592.
It is 'creamy' unlike most plumbers dope.
It's an anerobic sealant like most of their line, and high temperature unlike the 565 product.
If you use Locktite Primer-T it will set quickly and in thick sections.
#29
Cany say enough good things about loctite either. I have a lot of that stuff in my new build. I have been using ARP thread sealant for most of the applications wherever threads need to be sealed. I think it is just the pipe dope with the teflon in it. Sure looks just like Rector seal. I used it in my rocker stud installation, all pipe plugs and pipe fittings(like coolant and vacuume). It's sort of messy , but , it does a good job.
I have been using the red loctite for most permanent applications. I used it on all the tranny installation stuff ( flexplate nuts, bell housing bolts, T case bolts) . My mechanic buddy made me put it on the header bolts too. I did use it to install the cam retaining plate too. I would hate for that to come loose.I put some blue on the nut that holds the pulley to the alt. My pully didnt allow very much thread for the jam nut to thread onto when I did the 3G upgrade. I need to take the pulley out to Gary's and see if we can machine the center down some for the nut to go onto better. I still may need to fabricate one of those reducer bushings. My neighbor is taking one of my old heads to work with him tomorrow. He thinks he can tack weld a bolt into the bushing and then remove it. We will see how that goes. I hope well, but , if not it will be time for plan "B".
I have been using the red loctite for most permanent applications. I used it on all the tranny installation stuff ( flexplate nuts, bell housing bolts, T case bolts) . My mechanic buddy made me put it on the header bolts too. I did use it to install the cam retaining plate too. I would hate for that to come loose.I put some blue on the nut that holds the pulley to the alt. My pully didnt allow very much thread for the jam nut to thread onto when I did the 3G upgrade. I need to take the pulley out to Gary's and see if we can machine the center down some for the nut to go onto better. I still may need to fabricate one of those reducer bushings. My neighbor is taking one of my old heads to work with him tomorrow. He thinks he can tack weld a bolt into the bushing and then remove it. We will see how that goes. I hope well, but , if not it will be time for plan "B".
#30
Locktite isn't going to do anything for header bolts.
We used to be able to get distorted thread, flanged, copper plated lock nuts that would NOT sieze or shake loose... ever.
Or use Naval Brass threaded rod for studs in the head and crank it down hard into the thread lead In the bottom of the hole.
That tends to stay in place too.
I think the brass has a higher CE than iron & only swells tighter in the hole at operating temperature.
We used to be able to get distorted thread, flanged, copper plated lock nuts that would NOT sieze or shake loose... ever.
Or use Naval Brass threaded rod for studs in the head and crank it down hard into the thread lead In the bottom of the hole.
That tends to stay in place too.
I think the brass has a higher CE than iron & only swells tighter in the hole at operating temperature.