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  #2011  
Old 09-01-2014, 12:26 PM
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Romel77 Romel77 is offline
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Justin, have u ever considered steel multilayer head gasket? That is what the automakers started to do here in europe with the small capacity TSI engines, Ford is making 1.2 liter TSI engine with 104HP quite amazing. I think they use multilayer steel gaskets, it would solve the firering problem without any need to o ring the block. And they for sure have to outstand some boost numbers, no way 1.2 liter can make that power without decent boost presures.Just maybe something to think about. More and more cars using this stuff over here. But they are alloy engines, I am not sure how the cast iron would behave with it. Do not want to be smart, u are far far ahead of me in that knowledge. I trully admire u.
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  #2012  
Old 09-01-2014, 05:16 PM
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I've collected quite a bit of info on 8 cyl. piston pumps and thought I'd share my work. I'm sure you've run across these, but I don't like to assume! These are the engines they were available on or the pump models and some threads I found info for them on:

8850 John Deere (8 cylinder P-pump on powerstroke. - Page 3 - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com)

Mack E9 (P-Pump help - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together)

Massey Ferguson—Minimec 1155 (Duramax Powered Massey Ferguson Tractor - TheDieselPage.com - December 2009)

Deutz 1015

IH DV800 (7.3 high hp build - Page 3 - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together)

I think the Mack pump is the best option. It's the most compact, so you wouldn't have to work so hard on designing a new intake and you could potentially have room for a turbo in the lifter valley (not sure on the last part...). That's the pump Scheid sells for the PSD kits.
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  #2013  
Old 09-01-2014, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romel77 View Post
Justin, have u ever considered steel multilayer head gasket? That is what the automakers started to do here in europe with the small capacity TSI engines, Ford is making 1.2 liter TSI engine with 104HP quite amazing. I think they use multilayer steel gaskets, it would solve the firering problem without any need to o ring the block. And they for sure have to outstand some boost numbers, no way 1.2 liter can make that power without decent boost presures.Just maybe something to think about. More and more cars using this stuff over here. But they are alloy engines, I am not sure how the cast iron would behave with it. Do not want to be smart, u are far far ahead of me in that knowledge. I trully admire u.
Jan, I am actually going to call Cometic (Not the best track record, but easily the biggest willing to work with a guy) tomorrow, and try and see if I can either sweet talk them into producing an IDI gasket (Hell the 6.5's have them, and you cannot seriously say there are more them out there...), or at least paying them to produce me a proprietary MLS gasket (A guy can wish right?).... I will report what comes out of that. Worst case, I have half of the HG pattern in CAD now (The important half) and I could always have something done up by a smaller company willing to get a name out.

I got my Victors in, and while I would run them, they don't give me the reassurance I was looking for in something other than fel-pros....
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2013 F150 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost CC 6.5'bed
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  #2014  
Old 09-01-2014, 10:41 PM
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I found a few companies that would do it, ill dig up the info...
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  #2015  
Old 09-01-2014, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 0 Xero 0 View Post
I've collected quite a bit of info on 8 cyl. piston pumps and thought I'd share my work. I'm sure you've run across these, but I don't like to assume! These are the engines they were available on or the pump models and some threads I found info for them on:

8850 John Deere (8 cylinder P-pump on powerstroke. - Page 3 - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com)

Mack E9 (P-Pump help - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together)

Massey Ferguson—Minimec 1155 (Duramax Powered Massey Ferguson Tractor - TheDieselPage.com - December 2009)

Deutz 1015

IH DV800 (7.3 high hp build - Page 3 - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together)

I think the Mack pump is the best option. It's the most compact, so you wouldn't have to work so hard on designing a new intake and you could potentially have room for a turbo in the lifter valley (not sure on the last part...). That's the pump Scheid sells for the PSD kits.
Thanks for the links, I will read through them, They don't look familiar to me. That being said, Im already Balls-deep into this pump, so my fate is sealed here anyway.

I do know that the Scheid pump isn't natural to all Mack's though, there was a V-style inline pump at my injection shop the last time I was there, they told me it was a mack, and it didn't look anything like the "bosch" style V-pumps that I have seen (Whether those were actually bosch or aftermarket)... They Told me it wasn't capable of much, kind of like the 3208 stuff... I dont believe any hearsay until ive run it myself, but that's what Ive been told, so im passing it on.
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2013 F150 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost CC 6.5'bed
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  #2016  
Old 09-01-2014, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rhkcommander959 View Post
I found a few companies that would do it, ill dig up the info...
That would be awesome, gives me a headstart anyway. Thanks.
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2013 F150 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost CC 6.5'bed
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  #2017  
Old 09-01-2014, 11:46 PM
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eat at Joe's

I've read this whole darn thing. Congrats on the baby Racin'.
I'd be interested in MLS head gaskets.

How long was that FelPro on there? This go 'round, you're back with a 6.9 and what? 7/16" studs?


My build is going on over here. It's really just R&R.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/13...-and-more.html

Doesn't that look like a FelPro, with the silver slime? Mine was on for more than 10 years though. I believe the RockAuto engine gasket kit has Victor Reinze in it.

I'm really digging what your'e doing here.

Jeff.
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  #2018  
Old 09-02-2014, 03:05 AM
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I have had good success using Hylomar on head gaskets, but mainly on smaller capacity engines, turbo and N/A. Have used it on My old TD landrover, but that is the only diesel I have used it on. Do you guys bother with it? I have heard that high concentration coolant can eat it away though.
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  #2019  
Old 09-02-2014, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffStrachan View Post
I've read this whole darn thing. Congrats on the baby Racin'.
I'd be interested in MLS head gaskets.

How long was that FelPro on there? This go 'round, you're back with a 6.9 and what? 7/16" studs?


My build is going on over here. It's really just R&R.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/13...-and-more.html

Doesn't that look like a FelPro, with the silver slime? Mine was on for more than 10 years though. I believe the RockAuto engine gasket kit has Victor Reinze in it.

I'm really digging what your'e doing here.

Jeff.
Thanks for the good words Jeff.

The gasket was on there for about 3500 miles. Basically, to sum it up, I got the truck running, put about 100 miles on it in about 3 days, then hooked it up to my travel trailer (gross setup weight, 15K) and proceded to drive to Yuma, AZ via SLC and Vegas, out to the coast, and home (Unloaded obviously, if you read the thread, you know the story) When I got home, I swapped on the S366 and proceded to blow the Felpro... That was last Feb.

I am not running 7/16" studs anymore, I wouldn't trust them on anything over 90cc unless decompressed, but that's just me. I am building a set of drilling jigs right now so that I can drill and tap the block for 9/16" fasteners. A 9/16" stud at 190-200ft/lbs is going to give all the head clamping force you'll ever need.

Your pics do look like Fel-Pro's, and to give credit where its due, my 7.3 has Fel-Pro's, and they were fine for 30k beating the hell out of things, with studs at 150ft/lbs of course. The Victors I got from Rockauto look to be the same make-up of the Fel-Pro's, with arguably a worse firering than the FP's. They don't look like I remember NMB2's Victors looking like when he did his gaskets, but It could be me.
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2013 F150 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost CC 6.5'bed
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  #2020  
Old 09-02-2014, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozdatman View Post
I have had good success using Hylomar on head gaskets, but mainly on smaller capacity engines, turbo and N/A. Have used it on My old TD landrover, but that is the only diesel I have used it on. Do you guys bother with it? I have heard that high concentration coolant can eat it away though.
I know a bunch of people use it, but I am weary about putting any coating on a gasket of "softer" make-up, especially on a diesel. Anything that can cause the gasket to "slide" just seems counter productive to me, even if it is meant to be a better seal. The whole issue with my gaskets blowing was that I lifted the head and it had no support, so it just pushed the weak gasket out. If I was running an MLS or Copper HG, and I lifted the head, it would have just pressurized my cooling system, and I would probably have been fine.
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2013 F150 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost CC 6.5'bed
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  #2021  
Old 09-02-2014, 04:05 PM
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So far we have two options other than Victor/Felpro, and neither of them include MLS.

I talked to Cometic, and they basically told me no way in hell, that if I could guarantee 500 orders, then sure, otherwise its just not worth it to them to make the tooling. The reason the 6.2/6.5 stuff has them is because they bought the tooling way back from GM and the division that makes the Humvie's still uses those HG's...

I talked to Flatout about custom MLS, and as far as MLS is concerned, they basically told me the same thing about the tooling. But he said he had some other more standard gaskets that perform better than the Felpro type gasket...

I also talked to another company about Copper HG's, and He said that if I got him a Cad drawing (Already basically done with it) that there wouldn't be any setup fee. I told him my concerns with copper leaking and whatnot, and he said that there is a sealant made by Threebond that Honda and Yamaha use for their gasketless seals, and it works great on copper HG's. Im going to send him my drawing and get pricing. Basically Ill make my decision which route I go from there.
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2013 F150 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost CC 6.5'bed
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  #2022  
Old 09-02-2014, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RacinNdrummin View Post
I got some ideas floating around my head, they wont involve a P-Pump, but some other sort of inline pump, maybe an MW or A-pump, or even a modded V-pump. Those will put out plenty of fuel, more cost effective and more available.
I am interested in this. A P-pump is more expensive anyway. The V-pumps seem to be the most readily available from what I have seen.

Anyway keep up the good work on your build. It is awesome watching you blaze the trail! I kinda wonder how well the stock gaskets would hold with the 9/16" studs. Probably not well enough for 600hp but I bet it would 450hp easily...
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  #2023  
Old 09-02-2014, 07:31 PM
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I am interested in this. A P-pump is more expensive anyway. The V-pumps seem to be the most readily available from what I have seen.

Anyway keep up the good work on your build. It is awesome watching you blaze the trail! I kinda wonder how well the stock gaskets would hold with the 9/16" studs. Probably not well enough for 600hp but I bet it would 450hp easily...
Yeah, I still want to mess around with the CAT pumps, I think I could use those as a base, and produce a pump that fits nicely in our engines without a whole ton of work.

As far as the gaskets go, Im right there with you. If the Felpros held with 150ft/lbs on my 7.3, how much would they hold with 200ft/lbs on 9/16 studs? At the same time, im dreading having to pull the heads again, and my goal is to find a solution, not to see where parts fail... Its a hard decision, trust me.
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2013 F150 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost CC 6.5'bed
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  #2024  
Old 09-02-2014, 10:59 PM
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I didn't consider a Cat pump when I was researching because the 3408 pumps are massive. They weigh around 100 pounds or more. I've tinkered with a dismantled engine myself. A 3208 pump might be feasible, but those engines are rated at pretty low power except in marine trim. I don't know how much power you could eke out of one of those pumps, but I know the 3208s weren't the greatest engines. Also, those pumps are a different style than the port and helix pumps. They are sleeve metering pumps (Sleeve Metering Fuel System). I'm not trying to dissuade you, just some food for thought.
3208 Marine Data Sheet
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  #2025  
Old 09-03-2014, 09:03 AM
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I didn't consider a Cat pump when I was researching because the 3408 pumps are massive. They weigh around 100 pounds or more. I've tinkered with a dismantled engine myself. A 3208 pump might be feasible, but those engines are rated at pretty low power except in marine trim. I don't know how much power you could eke out of one of those pumps, but I know the 3208s weren't the greatest engines. Also, those pumps are a different style than the port and helix pumps. They are sleeve metering pumps (Sleeve Metering Fuel System). I'm not trying to dissuade you, just some food for thought.
3208 Marine Data Sheet
The marine pump fuel consumption puts it right at 135cc of fuel at 2800RPM. Im sure that is severely detuned as far as pump capacity goes, so I don't think 250cc would be all that out of the question, but I would have to see what I could do with one, I do know the Turbo 3208 pumps have slightly more beefy internals, ive been trying to get my hands on one to play with. That being said, because they are sleeve metered, it makes them a helluva lot easier to produce B/P's for.
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2013 F150 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost CC 6.5'bed
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:03 AM
 
 
 
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