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  #1  
Old 11-12-2011, 07:43 PM
bronco Jr. bronco Jr. is offline
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5.0 4v swap into a 97-03 f150? Has it been done?

I just bought a 1999 f150 back from my dad for $1800 and it's body is in great shape, but it's a v6 with CAI and flowmaster catback... Engine and trans are tired 250000 miles! Leaves much to be desired.

I know that the 4r70w is the wrong bolt pattern bit could swap for one with a 4.6-5.0 pattern.
Other concerns include
-factory fuel pump most likely adequate, could replace one from a 5.4 truck?
-will my factory factory trans control module still work with the 5.0 wiring?
-will a factory 4r70w hold the power of a stock coyote?
-late model restoration says the swap kit requires return style fuel system. Will my stock one work?
-as far as size/fitment everything should work.
-any issues with a 5.0 flexplate to 4r70w or starter issues
-exhaust- I would like to know if there are any long tube headers that would be a close fit. If not the stock manifolds should work

Any help with any of this would be greatly appreciated. I'm hoping this would be just as fast if not faster than a lightning, since this f150 is a reg cab step side with a few exterior mods.
Anyone know of any good threads that deal with 5.0 swaps?
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  #2  
Old 11-12-2011, 08:10 PM
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what kind of ignition / computer system do you intend to use on the other motor ?
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Old 11-12-2011, 08:44 PM
bronco Jr. bronco Jr. is offline
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Ford racing has a control pack for the motor.

Ford Racing Street Rod Control Pack for 4.6L 3V Engines with Calibration -- M-6017-463V

The way I see it, the 4.2 is gonna need to be end up failing on me and I'd rather not spend a cent on the weak 4.2 might as well spend it to double the power on a modern motor.
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:22 PM
Bluegrass 7 Bluegrass 7 is offline
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Asumming you have no emissions requirements for inspection, 5L 4 barrel (4v) will need everything cleared out of your truck.
5L with an AOD transmission or manuel and drive shaft length fitted if needed.
Shift control modded to fit.
Throttle cable.
Basic electrical wireing.
Fuel tank set up for low pressure carb use.
New exhaust, motor mounts, radiator for the 5L.
Dash insturments will not work so must have some type replacement gages you desire to have.
Major job but can be done.
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:30 PM
bronco Jr. bronco Jr. is offline
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I'm not talking about the old 5.0 carb I'm talking about the new 5.0 4 valve twin cam... Like in the new mustangs... The crate motor is $6000 and harness is 1200-1400. Throttle is drive by wire, I'd have to find motor mounts, and a 4.6 pattern 4r70w.

I'm taking a electrical engineering course, so I could probably make the gauges work... Maybe. For exhaust I'd have to get an H-pipe made to mate up with the flowmaster catback.
Driveshaft would be the same if I can keep a 4r70w in there.
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:54 PM
Bluegrass 7 Bluegrass 7 is offline
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You are awhere the PCM contol system is not the same after 2004?
The new system is the CAN not the version as in your truck.
You may have a lot of issues to iron out unless someone has adapted the old system and control harness to work with the new motors.
BTW 4 barrel carbed motors were also known as 4v.
Since you were talking about 4r70 transmissions, they were also used behind the old 5L motors.
You was not clear on what you intended as to motors and transmissions.
There were 4 valve 5.4 L DOHC motors as far back as 1993 in Lincolns.

Good luck.
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Old 11-12-2011, 10:13 PM
bronco Jr. bronco Jr. is offline
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You're right bluegrass, I did not specify and I see my mistake. But a 302 carbed pushrod v8 would bolt up to my trans. I know that I'd need a 4.6 bell pattern trans. The 5.0 4v twin cam crate motor shares the 4.6 pattern.

Yes I know the new stuff is CAN. The control pack harness that is as far as I can tell a stand alone harness. That has it's own OBDII port, I would not be using my 4.2 PCM.

I apologize and don't want to sound like a smart@$$, I am a ford junky like most people on these forums.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:02 PM
bronco Jr. bronco Jr. is offline
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Ok after some research
crate 5.0- $6000 at late model restoration
Control harness-$1200
S&R power steering and alt bracket $500 (my stock power steering and A/C should work)
4.6 bolt pattern 4r70w trans locally sourced $300-$500 (do the J-mods myself)
Bauminator trans control system $400
Walbro fuel pump and regulator (55 psi) and adapters $400
Motor mounts from wrecker $50
5.0 flex plate $250 late model restoration

It's seems the only REAL fab work is to modify the trans/fuel system/ and reroute the A/C lines to the passenger side. Is there anything else that I'm overlooking?

Last edited by bronco Jr.; 11-18-2011 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Additional info
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:08 PM
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I also will be contverting to dual electric rad fans before swap along with a 20000 gvw trans cooler to help the trans.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:23 PM
Fosters Fosters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco Jr. View Post
Is there anything else that I'm overlooking?
Hate to be blunt here, but yes. The fact that you're putting ~$10,000 into an 1800 dollar truck.

Is the speedo electronic or mechanical? if mechanical, you're good as long as you buy the right version of the tranny, some of the earlier ones I think still had a mechanical gear driving the speedo. I'd be curious how you get the rest of the gauges to work...

You're also gonna need the y pipe at the very least if not the full exhaust. that 5.0 will move a lot more air than the 4.2.

Does the V6 have the 8.8 underneath? I know the new mustangs are still sporting the old trusty 8.8, but gotta keep in mind, those are geared way steeper and are lighter; putting 400hp thru an 8.8 with crappy gearing will be rough on it.

Another thing to consider, the 4R transmissions aren't anything to write home about when it comes to efficiency or gearing. I'd research what it'll take to put in a manual in if I were you. The 6 speed from a superduty should bolt up to the 5.0 if it has the same pattern as a 4.6/5.4/6.8; but you might have to clearance the trans tunnel and/or fab up a cross member. It would hold up to anything the 5.0 can dish out and then some though.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:46 PM
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The truck is $1800 but the body is pretty good and has lightning style potential. It also has around 1/4 million miles and is in need of a fresh drivetrain.

The speedo is mechanical.

I have my left over H-pipe with cats from my 2008 mustang gt (I swapped to longtube headers. They'll have to be split anyway because of the design. But once the cats are mated. I'll use what I can to get the mustang Cats to mount to the a fabbed h-pipe on the f150. then on into true dual tails.

I'm actually glad that I've got the 8.8 rear. It's got an open diff with 3.55 right now. Im gonna swap to a posi soon and maybe to a 3.73 or 4.10. There is much more aftermarket support than the 9.75 due to the design changes ford had made to the 9.75 some had a hybrid design and a few other design changes that I can't recall right now. Yes my 08 mustang gt has the 8.8. It is supercharged and around 450 rwhp and the 8.8 is fine even when I'm drag racing and getting a good launch. But anything more would be pushing it.

As for the 4r70w I've tried doing my research and the J-mods can make these trans pretty stout. From what Ive read these trans weak points are the converter and 3-4 shift and 4-3 downshift. The J-mods were posted up somewhere online (TCCOA?) by a ford transmission engineer. Anyway these 4r70w are behind some 10 second 1/4 mile cars with few mods. My trick should be around 4300-4400 lbs. Since the lightning has a 5.4 with blower and the 4r100 bothe which are considerably heavier than a 5.0 coyote and 4r70w combo. My truck shoul only be about 7-800 lbs heavier than my mustang.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:26 PM
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Yes, the 4R trannys can take a beating, but like I said, for efficiency and gearing, they suck.

The 31 spline 8.8s in my experience have only been good for 1 season of 1.6 60' launches in a 3250lb mustang, on 300hp. True, in a truck they won't see launches like that, but the stress put on em by the weight and much lower gearing (4.30s with 26" tires vs 3.73 with 31" tires) will do a number on em. It'll be like having a Titan with the Dana 44 on there :P
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:02 AM
bronco Jr. bronco Jr. is offline
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Ok after doing some more research I think the PATS system may be an obstacle but I think I may have figured it out...

Here goes, the 5.0 coyote harness only has a few connections to be operational, 12 volt key on, fuel pump, tach (optional) Starter signal (optional), Neutral position switch.

I'm not exactly about this but I'm going to contact ford racing and ask if most of these are optional if my stock PCM remains in place. The way I see it (chime in if I'm wrong) the factory PCM can stay in place to control the transmission but I'd have to move to TPS to the drive by wire gas pedal signal for the PCM to control the transmission. I also plan to route the factory 4.2 sensors oil, temp, volts, fuel, tach... They should be functional because the PATS system pairs the PCM and Gauges together for the chipped key... Theoretically this could work but there are a few things I'm not sure about....

If I set off the PATS is it going to cause a no run/start situation?
Will the tach signal even work? I've read that the PCM uses crank, cam, and coil together to form a tach signal. If that's true, then is the PCM tach output a conventional tach signal?
If someone with a wealth of knowledge on the PATS system or transmission control shed some light on this? Thanks in advance
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:13 AM
bronco Jr. bronco Jr. is offline
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I forgot to mention that I read on another forum that a 99 f150 reg cab/step side is 4050 lbs stock, I plan to shed some weight to get it around 3700-3800 lbs. I'm sure it should be quicker than a lightning since the Gen 2 lightning weighs 4600 lbs with 380 hp/ 450 tq
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:13 AM
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You will blow the center section of that 8.8 to high hell.... I have split 2 of them with my 5.4 after doing the swap. Literrally cracked the center diff the entire way around. So i would suggest a better than stock posi unit. Then you may be okay.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:13 AM
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