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Old 11-01-2011, 08:40 AM
527 527 is offline
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Help! my '59 is hard to start.

Let me first start with a disclamer "I am NOT nor do I clame to be a mechanic" I'm a 42 year old machinest with some "basic" auto knowledge.
Ok heres what I got, its a 1959 F100, I traded a '67 F350 dump truck for it. Not a "show" truck for sure, just a cool old truck in the $1500-$2000 range. I want to use it as a daily driver, 50 miles or so a day back and forth to work. I'm fairly confidant it's the stock 223 inline 6 with a Holly one barrel w/manual choke and "three on the tree"
Anyways, when I got it, it was hard to start, crank an crank and crank. also going down the road it would kinda bog out, if I "floored it" it would die right out but if I "backed off" it would kinda take off again. so...I got a carb kit, set down and did my best "Mike Hoffman" (an old friend now passed, not "book" smart but the best "make it run" mechanic I've ever seen) Now it runs great, no bog and all the power I could expect out of a 52 year old 6, 50mph no problem. I'm driving it just about every day BUT...it still won't start! CRANK an CRANK and CRANK sometimes finally starting or killing the battery. I pump the **** out of it till I think it's flooded, pull the plugs and they are dry! the choke or starting fluid dose not seem do anything. if I look down the carb and work the throtle it squirts. Someone said maybe the gas is draining back down the line through the mechanal fuel pump, so i have just whats in the bowl, enough to see squirt but not enough to start it.
Would an electrical fuel pump at the tank on a switch help "prime" the other pump? when it's running and there is no problem can i turn off the elec. pump?
Any other ideas?
Also when it's under a load, say going uphill or really accellerating it seems to, what i beleave is, spark knock. is the timing off?
I know without seeing it you all are merely speculating but any help would be great, and let me know if you have any questions on your injection molds! (thats just a joke, thats what i do to make money to play with old Fords and Harleys)
Anyway Thanks in advance
Chris
call, text 586-212-2320 or reply to post
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:05 AM
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raytasch raytasch is offline
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Sounds like a good complete tune up with points, plugs, cap, wiring, and filters might be a good place to start. A coil may help. Play close attention to the wiring or any changes that may have been made. You need to determine if you're getting spark when it won't crank.
The spark knock could be timing, advance, or too much of it. A good tune up will correct this if done correctly. Also, it could be heavy deposits in the combustion chamber.
An electric pump will not hurt anything. If it will hang to a long pull on a hill at WOT I doubt if it is the pump. Check the tank and the fuel pickup tube sock.for trash and all fuel lines for rust and the just go ahead and replace the soft lines.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:24 AM
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It is getting spark when cranking, well i pulled a plug and held it on the block and saw it spark, but is it strong enough i don't know. I was thinking maybe cracked coil also...so at least I'm kinda on the right track a ? The cap, rotor, points and wires "look" fairly new so i did not replace them yet, I checked it at night in the dark, moving the wires around and stuff with it running but did not see any arcing. but i did put in new plugs, clear fuel filter (to see the fuel, but its hard to tell if its emty or comtletely full) and I did an oil change w/filter. I guess the best thing to do is go ahead and start with a complete tune-up elinimating the obvious.
Thanks for the info.
Anyone else want to chime in ?
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:04 PM
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I also had a similar issue same truck engine etc. ended up being float bowl not set properly TOO MUCH fuel so it would crank and crank until its "flooded" condition improved.. Worth a try....
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:19 PM
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Have you checked initial timing? Sounds like it's not sparking at the right time to start, but once started, it advances.

When you rebuilt the carb, did you clean the passages REALLY well? Need to use a thin wire, carb cleaner and compressed air to open them up.

That's all I got!
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Old 11-01-2011, 05:29 PM
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527; It sounds like timing could be the cause of your preignition or detonation problem! As far as the difficult starting (this is based on an experience of mine) take a close look at the wires from your coil back to source. Your ignition is powered two ways, during the start cycle a full 12 volts are supplied to the coil from the starter relay. When the key is returned to the ignition position power is run through a resistor (usually on the firewall). if the wire from the starter relay to the coil is broken or poorly connected you end up with just the reduced voltage during start and could cause difficult starting.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:48 PM
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When I first got mine... I had a hell of a time starting it.

I learned when it was cold that pulling the choke all the way was a bit rough so I pulled it 3/4 and it would start right up. It sputters after 20 seconds so, I push the choke halfway and it warms up nicely.

I drive mine every day to get coffee and it doesn't quit.

I have gone around and replaced the basics, alternator, distributor, etc. I am circling around until I have to spend $1000 or so to make a performance or fuel economy improvement.

I think the prior posts here and using the choke in different positions will get you going.

Oh... I NEVER step on the gas at a cold start now!!! Just the choke!!!
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:36 AM
527 527 is offline
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Thank You !

The "WEB" can be a great thing ! The fact that all you guys not only are willing to offer suggestion, know what I'm talking about but best of all...actually CARE about these, as my wife puts it "Junky Old Trucks" Someday I may have a "SHOW" truck, but I doubt it. I was thinking just yesterday my way home from work, I wonder how many trips to & from "work" this old truck has made since 1959 ? WOW is that not cool ?
Well now that I have lots to look at or check out, guess what ? I've started it three time since last posting. Pumped 3-4 times, pulled out choke, cranked over a few times, pushed in choke and she fired right up!
OK OK I know it's not "fixed" and I will check out all the things you've suggested, but I have one more issue (well...I've got lots again if you were to ask the wife) anyways my turn signals don't signal ! All four bulbs are good, and I've replaced that round "flasher thing" under the dash (twice just to be sure) and NOTHING ! They all come on, just don't flash.
Any ideas ?
Thanks again, and I'll keep ya all posted.
Chris
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:17 AM
baumst baumst is offline
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Yeah... Try pulling the choke and not pumping the gas on the initial start. Should start up then ease the choke back.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:19 AM
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Yes e-tec i did use carb cleaner and air (only hit myself in the face twice) but no wire. I have not had time (working two jobs right now) to check that coil wire yet. It seems to be fine now when I "pump 3 times, pull choke, crank, push choke, crank starts" I guess I just had to get the secret combination right...the guy I got the truck from was just a temperary owner and did not know or want to know much about it.

well still no blinking turn signals
I have the weekend off so I will check that out and also I need a wheel cylinder, she pulls left when ya have to whoa-up in a hurry, the right front is not working like it should I already checked that. I need to replace that one then adjust em out so she stops straight.

Anyways I'll keep ya all posted.
Chris


P.S. I thought that '67 dump was cool BUT man I love this truck, nothing like getting a "thumbs up" at 5:15am on my way to work.
she aint pretty but she's cool !
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:19 AM
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