Up Yours Ford! Last Straw for me
#76
11-04-2011, 12:10 PM
My 08 Expy had the roof painted as well Tylus. There were rust spots coming from metal shavings that had been left on the bare metal when it was painted. The shavings protruded up through the paint and rusted and caused bubbling. I didn't notice this until just before the 36K warranty ran out so they relunctily fixed it. It was a nightmare also. They painted the roof without removing the racks or Sirius antenna-a real Earl Sheib job. They also had to paint the rear quarter panel as there is no clear line to stop the paint. Problem is they stopped the clear coat in the middle of the panel-called an open blend-this is a big no no and only done by sheister paint shops. There were dents all over the roof from them kneeling on it.
I made them repaint it and fix the dents. It came out better. The problem is the paint on Fords has become so thin, and the materials used are such low quality these issues will continue. With a decent paint job Tylus or I should never have this problem in the first 15 years.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...our-paint.html
I made them repaint it and fix the dents. It came out better. The problem is the paint on Fords has become so thin, and the materials used are such low quality these issues will continue. With a decent paint job Tylus or I should never have this problem in the first 15 years.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...our-paint.html
#77
11-04-2011, 03:25 PM
The pic of the roof channel shows that it lives in an area where there is a lot of metal in the air from some source and it is collecting in the channels. At best it is only washed on the rare occaision and never waxed or detailed.
It looks like it's owned by the Navy and spends most of it's life in the yards. It is not a fair comparison to your truck with the care you have given it. If it's a motor pool truck it is likely washed with a harsh detergent when it does get washed and that is death to the finish of any vehicle.
It looks like it's owned by the Navy and spends most of it's life in the yards. It is not a fair comparison to your truck with the care you have given it. If it's a motor pool truck it is likely washed with a harsh detergent when it does get washed and that is death to the finish of any vehicle.
#78
11-04-2011, 05:07 PM
Ford won't even talk to me now. Their decision is final and I'm told "Sorry, but no"
@ Berry. See how far the Warranty Policy has fallen since your issue in 2009. I've seen and read how Ford was cracking down on Warranty repairs, but this really drives it home. You and I had the same issues, but Ford took 2 wildly different approaches. Still amazes me that they have the gall to brag about how good they treat customers
I agree with you that it is likely never washed, or rarely if ever. Just strange that I found another 2008 model with same issues.
I'm mostly surprised by the gas lid and the front pillars. there was just bare metal there where the paint had sheeted off. the rear tail-light was trying to start bubbling as well. pictures don't show it, but the paint was raised and "wavy" along the edge of the lens
@ Berry. See how far the Warranty Policy has fallen since your issue in 2009. I've seen and read how Ford was cracking down on Warranty repairs, but this really drives it home. You and I had the same issues, but Ford took 2 wildly different approaches. Still amazes me that they have the gall to brag about how good they treat customers
The pic of the roof channel shows that it lives in an area where there is a lot of metal in the air from some source and it is collecting in the channels. At best it is only washed on the rare occaision and never waxed or detailed.
It looks like it's owned by the Navy and spends most of it's life in the yards. It is not a fair comparison to your truck with the care you have given it. If it's a motor pool truck it is likely washed with a harsh detergent when it does get washed and that is death to the finish of any vehicle.
It looks like it's owned by the Navy and spends most of it's life in the yards. It is not a fair comparison to your truck with the care you have given it. If it's a motor pool truck it is likely washed with a harsh detergent when it does get washed and that is death to the finish of any vehicle.
I'm mostly surprised by the gas lid and the front pillars. there was just bare metal there where the paint had sheeted off. the rear tail-light was trying to start bubbling as well. pictures don't show it, but the paint was raised and "wavy" along the edge of the lens
#79
11-04-2011, 05:17 PM
Now that they've stopped speaking to you, may I remind you:
Tracking down a senior Ford executive's home address through PUBLIC property tax records is not "stalking." Writing a letter and overnighting it to the home isn't "stalking."
Obtaining a URL like FordF***edMe.com isn't illegal, either. You might want to build a little website and mention it in you non-stalking letter. In any case, I'm waiting for you to obtain positive results in order to regain my faith in the United States Navy.
Not long ago NBC Chicago helped a woman with her Ford paint problems after Ford stopped speaking with her.
Car Owners Upset About Bad Paint Jobs | NBC Chicago
Tracking down a senior Ford executive's home address through PUBLIC property tax records is not "stalking." Writing a letter and overnighting it to the home isn't "stalking."
Obtaining a URL like FordF***edMe.com isn't illegal, either. You might want to build a little website and mention it in you non-stalking letter. In any case, I'm waiting for you to obtain positive results in order to regain my faith in the United States Navy.
Not long ago NBC Chicago helped a woman with her Ford paint problems after Ford stopped speaking with her.
Car Owners Upset About Bad Paint Jobs | NBC Chicago
#80
11-04-2011, 05:54 PM
Here's the article in full, very interesting.
Car Owners Upset About Bad Paint Jobs
A number of Ford owners say they're frustrated with bubbling, chipping paint.
By Lisa Parker
| Tuesday, Sep 20, 2011 | Updated 8:11 PM CDT
Sept. 20, 2011: A number of Ford owners say they're frustrated with bubbling, chipping paint.
Dorese Ramsey, Midlothian mother of five, needed a combination of form and function when she was shopping for a vehicle three years ago.
She decided on a used white Ford Expedition, the same kind model her husband drives.
"I liked this big car," she said. But three years later, she doesn’t like how it looks.
The paint on her SUV has been bubbling and peeling, making for a cosmetically challenged ride.
"It first started as bubbling paint," she said. "Eventually the whole thing got worse"
Ramsey is not alone.
She found thousands of other car owners with a similar peeling problem by just performing an Internet search, and she even landed on a Facebook page dedicated to Ford-Mercury peeling paint problems, where she said hundreds of disturbed vehicle owners go for advice on the bubbling, peeling paint.
The problem, according to former consultants to the auto industry, is a business model that puts paint suppliers in charge of quality control inside carmakers’ plants. That, they allege, has resulted in two major problems now bedeviling car owners: thin paint, and corroded parts that lead to peeling paint.
It’s a problem that Steve Gaiski, a chemical engineer and former consultant to the auto industry, says Ford Motor Company knows all too well.
"Several years back they hired us to do a study of all their facilities. And so we did and came back and said my gosh, do you realize you have thin paint in all your facilities?" Gaiski said.
To be clear, the problem isn’t just with Ford. Gaiski says other automakers face the same issue. But none have been hit harder with complaints, Gaiski says, than Ford. After Gaiski and his colleagues raised the issue with Ford, he says the carmaker had no interest in the research it paid for. Three weeks after raising a red flag, Gaiski says his company’s contract was terminated. Ultimately, the company sent him a “cease and desist” letter.
"I've been instructed by Ford basically, ‘stop contacting us,’" he said. "Now, as of 2011, what's happening ... it's ridiculous!"
Ford is no stranger to the problems of peeling paint: in recent years, it has issued technical Service Bulletins, TSBs, on a number of Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles that suffered from “aluminum corrosion” which led to ‘bubbling to blistering under the paint”
Nationally, a problem involving Crown Victoria police cruisers in dozens of cities led to another TSB and repairs. Internationally, in Australia, one shade of blue paint on a Ford prompted a recall.
Consumers here, however, say they’ve only received excuses from Ford. Three Ford owners who met Gaiski via the FaceBook page came to show Target 5 the peeling paint on their vehicles: a four-year old Expedition, a seven-year old Explorer, and a nine-year old Escape that its owner says started peeling paint at one-year old. The three owners shared the range of excuses they say they’ve heard from Ford:
"They say it could be bird droppings,” said Deb McGarry, the Expedition driver. “There are no birds in my car- only kids.”
“They kept telling me,’Oh, it’s just all the rust spots and rock chips you’re seeing from rail dust near the railroad tracks,’” Escape driver Kristine Oldham told Target 5. “And I’m like, ‘I don’t live near railroad tracks!’”
Donald Kroll, who says he just found the paint problem on his wife’s Explorer two months ago, said, “ It's their way of saying it's not our fault."
A Ford spokesperson would not comment on Steve Gaiski’s allegations, but offered the folliwng statement to Target 5 regarding Ford paint:
Ford vehicles, including the Expedition, offer high-quality paint that is very durable. Ford continually monitors its vehicles and is confident paint on our vehicles performs at or beyond customer expectations. When customers have questions, we work quickly to resolve their concerns.
Finally, one bit of good news for the Ramsey family of Midlothian. After questions about how their case was handled by Ford corporate and at the local level, the dealer reversed course and offered to paint the problem area on their Expedition, at no cost to the family.
Source: Car Owners Upset About Bad Paint Jobs | NBC Chicago
Car Owners Upset About Bad Paint Jobs
A number of Ford owners say they're frustrated with bubbling, chipping paint.
By Lisa Parker
| Tuesday, Sep 20, 2011 | Updated 8:11 PM CDT
Sept. 20, 2011: A number of Ford owners say they're frustrated with bubbling, chipping paint.
Dorese Ramsey, Midlothian mother of five, needed a combination of form and function when she was shopping for a vehicle three years ago.
She decided on a used white Ford Expedition, the same kind model her husband drives.
"I liked this big car," she said. But three years later, she doesn’t like how it looks.
The paint on her SUV has been bubbling and peeling, making for a cosmetically challenged ride.
"It first started as bubbling paint," she said. "Eventually the whole thing got worse"
Ramsey is not alone.
She found thousands of other car owners with a similar peeling problem by just performing an Internet search, and she even landed on a Facebook page dedicated to Ford-Mercury peeling paint problems, where she said hundreds of disturbed vehicle owners go for advice on the bubbling, peeling paint.
The problem, according to former consultants to the auto industry, is a business model that puts paint suppliers in charge of quality control inside carmakers’ plants. That, they allege, has resulted in two major problems now bedeviling car owners: thin paint, and corroded parts that lead to peeling paint.
It’s a problem that Steve Gaiski, a chemical engineer and former consultant to the auto industry, says Ford Motor Company knows all too well.
"Several years back they hired us to do a study of all their facilities. And so we did and came back and said my gosh, do you realize you have thin paint in all your facilities?" Gaiski said.
To be clear, the problem isn’t just with Ford. Gaiski says other automakers face the same issue. But none have been hit harder with complaints, Gaiski says, than Ford. After Gaiski and his colleagues raised the issue with Ford, he says the carmaker had no interest in the research it paid for. Three weeks after raising a red flag, Gaiski says his company’s contract was terminated. Ultimately, the company sent him a “cease and desist” letter.
"I've been instructed by Ford basically, ‘stop contacting us,’" he said. "Now, as of 2011, what's happening ... it's ridiculous!"
Ford is no stranger to the problems of peeling paint: in recent years, it has issued technical Service Bulletins, TSBs, on a number of Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles that suffered from “aluminum corrosion” which led to ‘bubbling to blistering under the paint”
Nationally, a problem involving Crown Victoria police cruisers in dozens of cities led to another TSB and repairs. Internationally, in Australia, one shade of blue paint on a Ford prompted a recall.
Consumers here, however, say they’ve only received excuses from Ford. Three Ford owners who met Gaiski via the FaceBook page came to show Target 5 the peeling paint on their vehicles: a four-year old Expedition, a seven-year old Explorer, and a nine-year old Escape that its owner says started peeling paint at one-year old. The three owners shared the range of excuses they say they’ve heard from Ford:
"They say it could be bird droppings,” said Deb McGarry, the Expedition driver. “There are no birds in my car- only kids.”
“They kept telling me,’Oh, it’s just all the rust spots and rock chips you’re seeing from rail dust near the railroad tracks,’” Escape driver Kristine Oldham told Target 5. “And I’m like, ‘I don’t live near railroad tracks!’”
Donald Kroll, who says he just found the paint problem on his wife’s Explorer two months ago, said, “ It's their way of saying it's not our fault."
A Ford spokesperson would not comment on Steve Gaiski’s allegations, but offered the folliwng statement to Target 5 regarding Ford paint:
Ford vehicles, including the Expedition, offer high-quality paint that is very durable. Ford continually monitors its vehicles and is confident paint on our vehicles performs at or beyond customer expectations. When customers have questions, we work quickly to resolve their concerns.
Finally, one bit of good news for the Ramsey family of Midlothian. After questions about how their case was handled by Ford corporate and at the local level, the dealer reversed course and offered to paint the problem area on their Expedition, at no cost to the family.
Source: Car Owners Upset About Bad Paint Jobs | NBC Chicago
#81
11-04-2011, 06:31 PM
KHON2 News called me about 15 minutes ago. They verified all of my information including past and present paint issues. Not likely to get a news story, but the nice lady is sending me their station letterhead with my details on it. Also sounds like I will receive several Ford Exec's contact info that isn't readily available to Public.
I might take you up on that suggestion XB70. I just have to be careful of what I do. If nothing else, the KHON2 letterhead should spark some interest. Lady said they had opened a case file and wants me to keep her updated
I might take you up on that suggestion XB70. I just have to be careful of what I do. If nothing else, the KHON2 letterhead should spark some interest. Lady said they had opened a case file and wants me to keep her updated
#82
11-09-2011, 02:45 AM
Was with wife + kids tonight at Walmart in the truck. Saw a nice 2009 Silver colored Expy EL pull up a few stalls down.
Felt stupid doing it, but I went over and asked them if they had any issues with their Expy paint. Guy knew exactly what I was asking about. He pointed out his hood and front emblem and then the rear hatch. He was out of Warranty (by mileage) as well so couldn't get the crap fixed.
It's not an environemental factor IMO. He is a DOD Contractor and arrived on Island <1yr ago with vehicle from California. Paint issues existed prior to arrival. Luckily his roof wasn't exhibiting any defects. Very nice man. I'm disappointed that I can find these issues so easily.
Felt stupid doing it, but I went over and asked them if they had any issues with their Expy paint. Guy knew exactly what I was asking about. He pointed out his hood and front emblem and then the rear hatch. He was out of Warranty (by mileage) as well so couldn't get the crap fixed.
It's not an environemental factor IMO. He is a DOD Contractor and arrived on Island <1yr ago with vehicle from California. Paint issues existed prior to arrival. Luckily his roof wasn't exhibiting any defects. Very nice man. I'm disappointed that I can find these issues so easily.
#83
11-09-2011, 06:11 PM
FYI, I just got the Consumer Reports 2012 buying guide which has used car ratings. They have a "paint and trim" rating on all cars.
The Expedition paint/trim are much worse than average for the 05 and 06 model years, worse than average for 07, better than average for 08(!?), average for 09, and much better than average for 2010. My reading of these ratings is that paint problems show up more with age. Ratings on the F150 are actually better in the earlier years rated. Of course, the Expy has more exterior trim, which is part of the rating.
Looks like GM, Dodge, and even Toyota trucks are not a hell of a lot better in terms of their ratings, although the "much worse than average" does not show up that often. For what it's worth, the Ford Fusion is much better than average for ALL years (rare among all vehicles of all brands) 06-10--these are Mexican built cars. The Fusion has better ratings than Honda and Toyota, for example, in this category.
Wonder what they're doing right in Mexico? Maybe they're allowed to spray older style paint with more VOC's because of looser emissions regs in Mexico?
George
The Expedition paint/trim are much worse than average for the 05 and 06 model years, worse than average for 07, better than average for 08(!?), average for 09, and much better than average for 2010. My reading of these ratings is that paint problems show up more with age. Ratings on the F150 are actually better in the earlier years rated. Of course, the Expy has more exterior trim, which is part of the rating.
Looks like GM, Dodge, and even Toyota trucks are not a hell of a lot better in terms of their ratings, although the "much worse than average" does not show up that often. For what it's worth, the Ford Fusion is much better than average for ALL years (rare among all vehicles of all brands) 06-10--these are Mexican built cars. The Fusion has better ratings than Honda and Toyota, for example, in this category.
Wonder what they're doing right in Mexico? Maybe they're allowed to spray older style paint with more VOC's because of looser emissions regs in Mexico?
George
#84
11-09-2011, 06:27 PM
It's not just ford. Pay attention to car roofs as you drive around. I have seen a huge rise in the number of roofs with clear coat failures. My dads 04 Titan-clear coat failure on roof, hood and fenders. I see Toyotas and Nissans that are less than 6 years old with failing paint. Reminds me of the early 80's cars that had the same problem.
#86
11-09-2011, 06:54 PM
Ford paints the town green
Although I like good paint on my cars, I live in Detroit and have asthma, so less air pollution might help keep me out of the ER (where I end up every few years when I have a bad attack). I live about 5 miles, mostly downwind, of the Jeep Grand Cherokee plant, and remember the smell of paint fumes in prior years--these don't seem to be as pervasive these days. Good for my lungs, but something tells me that water-based paints just won't hold up as well as the old heavy VOC formulas.
George
#87
11-09-2011, 07:52 PM
The main thing that gets me hot is the fact that many new cars and nearly all trucks cost more than my first house in Miami. I have a problem with paying that much for a new truck and then having to live with the mechanical and/or cosmetic problems that seem to come with them. Then when you take it in for warrantee service you can expect to be treated like you just fell off the turnip truck.
#88
11-14-2011, 11:26 AM
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This thread prompted me to look closer at my California-garaged roof and hood. Mine has small white, difficult to see unless I look closely, spots (possible bad clearcoat?) all over. The roof has one pin-sized rust spot at one of the white spots. When I sanded it down, I found that the rust is larger underneath--about 2mm in diameter. Now I'm very worried about the other white spots, wondering when they will begin rusting.
#89
11-14-2011, 12:25 PM
This thread prompted me to look closer at my California-garaged roof and hood. Mine has small white, difficult to see unless I look closely, spots (possible bad clearcoat?) all over. The roof has one pin-sized rust spot at one of the white spots. When I sanded it down, I found that the rust is larger underneath--about 2mm in diameter. Now I'm very worried about the other white spots, wondering when they will begin rusting.
#90
11-14-2011, 03:42 PM
Certainly the bean counters are involved, but the move to reduce emissions from auto plants is a big player. Looks like Ford started converting its paint systems in 2004-2005 based on the following article:
Ford paints the town green
Although I like good paint on my cars, I live in Detroit and have asthma, so less air pollution might help keep me out of the ER (where I end up every few years when I have a bad attack). I live about 5 miles, mostly downwind, of the Jeep Grand Cherokee plant, and remember the smell of paint fumes in prior years--these don't seem to be as pervasive these days. Good for my lungs, but something tells me that water-based paints just won't hold up as well as the old heavy VOC formulas.
George
Ford paints the town green
Although I like good paint on my cars, I live in Detroit and have asthma, so less air pollution might help keep me out of the ER (where I end up every few years when I have a bad attack). I live about 5 miles, mostly downwind, of the Jeep Grand Cherokee plant, and remember the smell of paint fumes in prior years--these don't seem to be as pervasive these days. Good for my lungs, but something tells me that water-based paints just won't hold up as well as the old heavy VOC formulas.
George
kinda like the new pads compared to the good old asbestos brakes.