E40D: Code 62
#1
10-09-2011, 03:37 PM
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E40D: Code 62
Ok a KOEO test result would have be favorable if given a choice between the two...
The computer notes a difference in speed/engine rpm, converter clutch slipping.
What I would do is tap into that circuit, lock the converter myself manually, that would prove/disprove the CC mechanical ability to do so.
Accelerate to about forty and lock it, drive a ways up and down hill under load and verify it does "hold". That is if it locked to start with.
If it can and does it would clearly show a fault someplace in the electrical system in place to do so automatically.
If it did not I would first question the solenoid and or circuit (wire) leading to it (depending on where I taped into the circuit for the test) normally I would choose top of the driver side wheel tub for ease of access sake. Doubt its directly related to the wire/solenoid as it passes the KOEO testing. Not infallible but....
If you'd like to perform this test find the Purple-yellow wire in the harness leading to the passenger side of the trans into top of pan area.
Tap into it any place handy with a section of wire long enough to reach the drivers seat and tape it up, run the wire in the cab, now find a good ground handy you can reach. Take it for a ride, get to or above 35 and ground that wire. The CCC should lock and "hold" until you remove that ground.
You can also hook up a toggle switch to do the same thing (easier to do while driving, operate switch), if you prefer but simply grounding the bare end of the wire will work.
If nothing happens get a helper, one of you get under the trans pan with the key turned to "run" (engine not running). The other person ground that wire, does the person under the truck hear a "click" at all?
Not a perfect test, listening for a audible click, not always loud enough to hear. But if you do hear it click it shows a proper reaction to grounding that lead wire. If not warrants further investigation.
You can also test the solenoid a couple of ways,
Resistance of solenoid = 4.0-6.5 ohms / High resistance? = replace solenoid.
Test for continuity to ground / replace solenoid if tests shorted to ground.
The computer notes a difference in speed/engine rpm, converter clutch slipping.
What I would do is tap into that circuit, lock the converter myself manually, that would prove/disprove the CC mechanical ability to do so.
Accelerate to about forty and lock it, drive a ways up and down hill under load and verify it does "hold". That is if it locked to start with.
If it can and does it would clearly show a fault someplace in the electrical system in place to do so automatically.
If it did not I would first question the solenoid and or circuit (wire) leading to it (depending on where I taped into the circuit for the test) normally I would choose top of the driver side wheel tub for ease of access sake. Doubt its directly related to the wire/solenoid as it passes the KOEO testing. Not infallible but....
If you'd like to perform this test find the Purple-yellow wire in the harness leading to the passenger side of the trans into top of pan area.
Tap into it any place handy with a section of wire long enough to reach the drivers seat and tape it up, run the wire in the cab, now find a good ground handy you can reach. Take it for a ride, get to or above 35 and ground that wire. The CCC should lock and "hold" until you remove that ground.
You can also hook up a toggle switch to do the same thing (easier to do while driving, operate switch), if you prefer but simply grounding the bare end of the wire will work.
If nothing happens get a helper, one of you get under the trans pan with the key turned to "run" (engine not running). The other person ground that wire, does the person under the truck hear a "click" at all?
Not a perfect test, listening for a audible click, not always loud enough to hear. But if you do hear it click it shows a proper reaction to grounding that lead wire. If not warrants further investigation.
You can also test the solenoid a couple of ways,
Resistance of solenoid = 4.0-6.5 ohms / High resistance? = replace solenoid.
Test for continuity to ground / replace solenoid if tests shorted to ground.
second,i cleaned the plug on the pass side (solenoid connector i guess its called.-the hard lil bugger to get off there.) no change.
ok,so i ran a wire in the cab to lock the TC up manually,and cleared the codes to get her out of limp mode.
same results.i feel her unlock and relock in OD.
i hear the "click" he speaks of with the engine off,and key forward,grounding that purple/yellow wire,and it locks it up at first all easy too,but she's still not holding.
funny thing is,that when she goes into limp mode,and i manually upshift so she goes to 3rd (and then OD.) this increase in line pressure seems to make her run perfect with no slip,un/lockup issues at all.does that mean anything at all,or is it time for a TC?
"Resistance of solenoid = 4.0-6.5 ohms / High resistance? = replace solenoid."
this must be at that plug i just cleaned right? kinda tight spot to test the pins down in there.how the heck do i do this lol.
i think its time to call racerX for their HD TC,but i don't want to replace the TC and just have the same problem due to something else.so i want to make 100% sure before spending several hundred on a new hd converter (though a more efficient tc for fuel economy sounds dang good,and with the banks turbo install soon to come,this isn't exactly a bad upgrade right now anyway.but thats a lot of coin.)
79.5k miles.
p.s.
there sure is a LOT of confusion as to what code 62 means.apparently it means a lot of things per trans.the best i can tell so far,is that for the diesel E40D it just means too much slip of the converter. - hardly need a scan tool to let ya know this though.it's pretty clear whats going on with her (when not in limp mode.)
#3
10-09-2011, 04:11 PM
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thanks lazy.
it sure does look like the most common problem.
back when i changed over to hydrooboost brakes, apparently i must have frigged up the BOO (brake on/off) sensor (but i don't understand this,as there seems to only be one way it goes on the brake pedal?) cus my cruise control never worked after that.an issue the other guy there said he had-no cruise.
but thats been awhile now,and since i don't really use cruise control anyway,i wasn't worried about fixing that.but im getting no codes for the BOO,i don't even know if there is one for that.i doubt it could be related since that was a few months ago now anyway.
i have no bad noises,nor any shudder feeling.what gets me is the converter operates normally when the OD light flashes (once she enters limp/safety mode) but when i clear the code to take her out of limp,the slip in OD can't be missed by feel,and verified by the tach showing increased 500+ rpms quickly,unless ya back off a lil and help her lock up again.
this is why id like to learn more about testing this solenoid first.will make me feel better about sending $600+ to racerx.
edit,
oh man.i wish i had one of these tools.looks pretty dang slick;
http://www.hicklin.com/Support/tranx.../operation.pdf
i may need this info;
Transmission Application E4OD : Solenoid Resistance (Ohms)
Shift Solenoid 1 : 20-30
Shift Solenoid 2 : 20-30
Torque Converter Solenoid : 20-30
Coast Clutch Solenoid : 20-30
Electronic Pressure Control : 4.0-6.5
but i like the sounds of the last one;
"Electronic Pressure Control"
because if this one has failed,then this would explain perfectly well why she operates great when in limp mode (when line pressure is increased) yet slips in normal operating mode.
i guess in normal mode she uses the solenoids to shift,and when in limp mode,it just uses pressure not using them at all is this correct? - if so,i think im on to something here.
i REALLY want to test this one.now to find out if i need to drop the pan and pull that solenoid body out or what.-which actually isn't that bad right now,cus its time for a flush anyway.so i don't even need to go out of my way (all that much.i would have probably just flushed it via the return line method since i changed the internal filter last time.but oh well.)
edit,saving link;
http://www.oregonperformancetransmis...gory_Code=E4OD
it sure does look like the most common problem.
back when i changed over to hydrooboost brakes, apparently i must have frigged up the BOO (brake on/off) sensor (but i don't understand this,as there seems to only be one way it goes on the brake pedal?) cus my cruise control never worked after that.an issue the other guy there said he had-no cruise.
but thats been awhile now,and since i don't really use cruise control anyway,i wasn't worried about fixing that.but im getting no codes for the BOO,i don't even know if there is one for that.i doubt it could be related since that was a few months ago now anyway.
i have no bad noises,nor any shudder feeling.what gets me is the converter operates normally when the OD light flashes (once she enters limp/safety mode) but when i clear the code to take her out of limp,the slip in OD can't be missed by feel,and verified by the tach showing increased 500+ rpms quickly,unless ya back off a lil and help her lock up again.
this is why id like to learn more about testing this solenoid first.will make me feel better about sending $600+ to racerx.
edit,
oh man.i wish i had one of these tools.looks pretty dang slick;
http://www.hicklin.com/Support/tranx.../operation.pdf
i may need this info;
Transmission Application E4OD : Solenoid Resistance (Ohms)
Shift Solenoid 1 : 20-30
Shift Solenoid 2 : 20-30
Torque Converter Solenoid : 20-30
Coast Clutch Solenoid : 20-30
Electronic Pressure Control : 4.0-6.5
but i like the sounds of the last one;
"Electronic Pressure Control"
because if this one has failed,then this would explain perfectly well why she operates great when in limp mode (when line pressure is increased) yet slips in normal operating mode.
i guess in normal mode she uses the solenoids to shift,and when in limp mode,it just uses pressure not using them at all is this correct? - if so,i think im on to something here.
i REALLY want to test this one.now to find out if i need to drop the pan and pull that solenoid body out or what.-which actually isn't that bad right now,cus its time for a flush anyway.so i don't even need to go out of my way (all that much.i would have probably just flushed it via the return line method since i changed the internal filter last time.but oh well.)
edit,saving link;
http://www.oregonperformancetransmis...gory_Code=E4OD
#4
10-09-2011, 05:10 PM
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there are relays for the trans under the hood in the fuse panel there.
this is where the fuse for the cruise control must be too?
does anyone have the fuse panel chart for this? if this is in the owner manual,my truck never had one since i bought it.would be good to have this.i'll print it out for the glove box.
and i guess that brake on/off switch is just for the brake lights.these work fine.so i guess i didn't mess that switch up after all.i did something during hydroboost swap though,cus cruise hasn't worked since.well anyway,i could use the this fuse panel info for a couple things.
this is where the fuse for the cruise control must be too?
does anyone have the fuse panel chart for this? if this is in the owner manual,my truck never had one since i bought it.would be good to have this.i'll print it out for the glove box.
and i guess that brake on/off switch is just for the brake lights.these work fine.so i guess i didn't mess that switch up after all.i did something during hydroboost swap though,cus cruise hasn't worked since.well anyway,i could use the this fuse panel info for a couple things.
#5
10-09-2011, 06:10 PM
there sure is a LOT of confusion as to what code 62 means.apparently it means a lot of things per trans.the best i can tell so far,is that for the diesel E40D it just means too much slip of the converter. - hardly need a scan tool to let ya know this though.it's pretty clear whats going on with her (when not in limp mode.)
#6
10-09-2011, 06:31 PM
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you can feel it all the sudden "let loose" "open" or pretty dang close to a "slip" feel.of course the tach shows higher rpms when this happens and you hear the engine rev higher too.
there's no mistaking it.
think "C6 trans without a locking converter" if you will (this is very hard to remember.we've become spoiled these days!!! no lock in OD feels horrible lol.)
this doesn't happen at all in limp mode though,which is why i feel its not mechanical (not the actual converter) because a failed mechanical item,one would think,would always be in a failed state.and mines only "slipping" when the code is cleared (no od light flashing.) once she hits limp mode (and i manually shift her from 2nd to D so she will continue to shift) all is normal(besides the extra shift firmness of the increased line pressure of course.) not what id expect from a trashed converter.
i think i need to drop the pan to test the solenoids from there.
this all started exactly after hooking up my plow to move it up front the other day to paint it.......hmmm.thing is,i retraced these steps asap by unhooking everything plow related that i had just hooked back up,and last winter it didn't give me any troubles.so im thinking coincidence,because for a couple days now i felt the TC "wasn't right" but i couldn't put my finger on it.now with limp mode i can finally trace it out.
there's no mistaking it.
think "C6 trans without a locking converter" if you will (this is very hard to remember.we've become spoiled these days!!! no lock in OD feels horrible lol.)
this doesn't happen at all in limp mode though,which is why i feel its not mechanical (not the actual converter) because a failed mechanical item,one would think,would always be in a failed state.and mines only "slipping" when the code is cleared (no od light flashing.) once she hits limp mode (and i manually shift her from 2nd to D so she will continue to shift) all is normal(besides the extra shift firmness of the increased line pressure of course.) not what id expect from a trashed converter.
i think i need to drop the pan to test the solenoids from there.
this all started exactly after hooking up my plow to move it up front the other day to paint it.......hmmm.thing is,i retraced these steps asap by unhooking everything plow related that i had just hooked back up,and last winter it didn't give me any troubles.so im thinking coincidence,because for a couple days now i felt the TC "wasn't right" but i couldn't put my finger on it.now with limp mode i can finally trace it out.
#7
10-09-2011, 06:54 PM
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#8
10-09-2011, 07:33 PM
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it's nice actually though,cus like my last truck im able to just scan for a code and have it point me in the right direction.i sure learned on that '96 though to never just relay on the code.most often its correct,but a code doesn't always exactly mean what its meant too and relaying too much on them can cost a feller $. best to test all parts that could be causing the symptom.so im used to tracing out problems both ways.be it electrical or mechanical.the electrical gremlims do however require a little more study though,as normally i can just follow my nose with mechanical stuff if iv never done it before.electrical isn't the same,but it doesn't scare me.
at this point im hoping for electrical issue as it's several hundreds less $ than the mechanical part that might be needed lol.
as much as iv been wanting one them racerx converters though.....i dont think i'll cry too hard,but i was hoping to do this next spring or something,but the truck is my livelihood,so she needs to keep going or i cant lol.
at this point im hoping for electrical issue as it's several hundreds less $ than the mechanical part that might be needed lol.
as much as iv been wanting one them racerx converters though.....i dont think i'll cry too hard,but i was hoping to do this next spring or something,but the truck is my livelihood,so she needs to keep going or i cant lol.
#9
10-09-2011, 08:07 PM
That sounds like what my dad's dodge 1500 does. we can be crusing at 55mph and the tach will just start jumping up and down about 200 rpm.
#10
10-10-2011, 11:43 AM
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i think i got it.
failed TPS.
put on the new one and adjusted correctly,and no more TC slip.she's staying locked now.
i should have gotten the TPS code,but didn't.since she was out of range,it played tricks on lockup and then of course the brain threw the code showing the converter was slipping cus it was,BUT it wasn't tossing out the code letting me know WHY the converter was slipping.
dummy computer can't keep up with me lol.
goes to show ya,test.test.test.and then test some more before spending $ boys.
under 50 bucks @ advance auto and a little trial and error adjusting and she's back to new..........for now.i'll need to drive some more to see if she remains slip free and out of limp mode.but the few miles driving looks promising.
don't rely too much on the old school pcm to provide the proper codes,and even then when it does;investigate the reason why your getting the code.
why did the failed TPS trump the manual lockup mod i wonder though.
perhaps cus it wasn't the lockup part that i felt (and the computer new about; AKA code 62) slipping then.odd.
now onto researching more about properly adjusting a TPS (not just via voltage.i think there's more to it than this.she just seems way to sensitive to be able to set like this.)
edit; ah look here:
ok.i set my old one close enough so i thought and probably this one now too,but i think im gunna have a trans shop correctly set this one for me lol.........uncle.
side note;
dangit today is a holiday.i was going to take some $ out and go buy a used trailer today to make the day off worthwhile.son of a gun! i think i found a nice one.16' tandem in nice shape,just needs new brake shoes.
update,
went to look at that trailer (home built/not a full frame.not what im after) and driving there and back for around 25 miles or so round trip,she's running like a dream!
was confident enough in her that i headed out with intent to tow the trailer home,had she been a nice one.
so i guess thats,that.see ya latter code 62.your history without even getting grease under the nails.
so now iv got both wires run neatly and permanently into the cab via heat shrink connectors and wire loom.time to rig up the manual TC lock switch mod.although i don't know what on earth for,as she locks and stays there again like normal @ 35 ish mph.not sure id want to manually alter this for any reason anyway,but i guess since iv got the wires run now lol.
tapping into the purple/yellow tracer line is easy as pie right by the front drive shaft.wide open to work right there nicely.just split the loom a little where it goes up and cut right there.
most people hate safety/limp mode.
well,this saved me a lot of coin by having this mode show me my converter worked just fine.so i knew to explore other things.it's not a evil thing to see the od light flashing.can really save your trans and help narrow things down.
thank you safety/limp mode.you saved my converter.
failed TPS.
put on the new one and adjusted correctly,and no more TC slip.she's staying locked now.
i should have gotten the TPS code,but didn't.since she was out of range,it played tricks on lockup and then of course the brain threw the code showing the converter was slipping cus it was,BUT it wasn't tossing out the code letting me know WHY the converter was slipping.
dummy computer can't keep up with me lol.
goes to show ya,test.test.test.and then test some more before spending $ boys.
under 50 bucks @ advance auto and a little trial and error adjusting and she's back to new..........for now.i'll need to drive some more to see if she remains slip free and out of limp mode.but the few miles driving looks promising.
don't rely too much on the old school pcm to provide the proper codes,and even then when it does;investigate the reason why your getting the code.
why did the failed TPS trump the manual lockup mod i wonder though.
perhaps cus it wasn't the lockup part that i felt (and the computer new about; AKA code 62) slipping then.odd.
now onto researching more about properly adjusting a TPS (not just via voltage.i think there's more to it than this.she just seems way to sensitive to be able to set like this.)
edit; ah look here:
63Fairlane500--
Here's my thoughts and opinions on the FIPL, based on what I've experienced and learned. Best wishes.
GENERAL
The very best place to calibrate the FIPL is at a low to mid-throttle setting representative of typical acceleration and road speed cruising. Indeed, Ford does this via the gage block (0.515") and the scanner tool or whatever they use in production. Most of us don't have the scanner tool! The calibration here (mid-throttle) depends upon the accuracy of the gage block thickness AND that the MAXIMUM THROTTLE TRAVEL screw is precisely set (probably a reasonable assumption). A calibration that you could do at say WOT depends also on the MAXIMUM THROTTLE TRAVEL screw AND the resistance profile of the FIPL. The problem with calibrating at WOT is that this operating point is far away from where most of your FIPL operating points are for acceleration and cruising: you'd probably certainly get poor shift conditions. A calibration that you could do at IDLE is SUSCEPTIBLE to whether the Idle Spd Adj Screw has been turned. BUT IDLE is a more attractive place to set the FIPL than at WOT, because the FIPL output generated there is much closer to most operating points (of throttle) where we need the transmission to make a good decision.
I think you have a couple of options where you need to start, since you've got the increased the complexity by unbolting the whole FIPL bracket!
MAKE SURE THIS PART OF YOUR SYSTEM IS OK AND YOUR FIPL IS OK:
*CHECK THE FIPL FIRST WITH AN OHM METER: Is the resistance about 4.5kohms bet. the 2 outside terminals.
*CHECK WITH YOUR FIPL PLUGGED IN and ignition ON (probe where the wires go into the FIPL. That plug comes out...): Is Vref=5V (almost exactly)? Is Vgnd a very small? Ignore the FIPL output for now which is the center terminal.
TAKE ACTION:
1) Mechanically mount the FIPL to the FIPL BRACKET first! Try hard to mechanically CENTER those T-15's in the FIPL holes as you do this. This will provide some lee-way for later.
2) Loosely mount the FIPL / BRACKET ASSY to the pump with the T27's.
**NOW YOU HAVE A CHOICE, gven your equipment.
Choose one as a starting point:
a) GET OUT YOUR GAGE BLOCK YOU MIGHT HAVE JUST MADE: With
no wire harness on the FIPL, adjust the FIPL / BRACKET ASSY while measuring RESISTANCE from the center terminal to the top terminal (gnd) to get ~1900ohms. Gently tighten the screws-- you may be revisiting them!
b) FORGET THE GAGE BLOCK AND USE THE DVOM METHOD WITH THE key ON: Important: UNplug the power to the fast idle solenoid, ...AND be sure your throttle return springs are holding the Throttle Lever with low speed idle screw set against its respective stop. Probe that center PIN on the FIPL and turn your bracket assy to get V=1.250 volts as a good initial point. Tighten the big T27 bracket screws.
Go for a drive-- you might have to iterate. Hopfully, you'll only have to move the FIPL-- not the big bracket.
**NOTE on your drive
-shift timing
-shift harshness/smoothness
-how readily the truck downshifts when you get on it a little.
Use your observations to help you make an iterative decision.
A higher FIPL output voltage will make your truck wind out farther in any gear and it will kick down more easily to a lower gear.
A NOTE ON FIPL ADJUSTMENT RANGE AND SENSITIVITY!!
The width of the FIPL output voltage window at IDLE is not big (just by loosening the litttle t15 FIPL mtg screws.). WINDOW SIZE~200mV. But within this window, you'll achieve an unbelievably different behavior from that transmission. I RECOMMEND YOU START AT 1.250V AND USE A STEP SIZE OF 0.040V (40mV) in your iteration / drives. Don't give up!
Here's my thoughts and opinions on the FIPL, based on what I've experienced and learned. Best wishes.
GENERAL
The very best place to calibrate the FIPL is at a low to mid-throttle setting representative of typical acceleration and road speed cruising. Indeed, Ford does this via the gage block (0.515") and the scanner tool or whatever they use in production. Most of us don't have the scanner tool! The calibration here (mid-throttle) depends upon the accuracy of the gage block thickness AND that the MAXIMUM THROTTLE TRAVEL screw is precisely set (probably a reasonable assumption). A calibration that you could do at say WOT depends also on the MAXIMUM THROTTLE TRAVEL screw AND the resistance profile of the FIPL. The problem with calibrating at WOT is that this operating point is far away from where most of your FIPL operating points are for acceleration and cruising: you'd probably certainly get poor shift conditions. A calibration that you could do at IDLE is SUSCEPTIBLE to whether the Idle Spd Adj Screw has been turned. BUT IDLE is a more attractive place to set the FIPL than at WOT, because the FIPL output generated there is much closer to most operating points (of throttle) where we need the transmission to make a good decision.
I think you have a couple of options where you need to start, since you've got the increased the complexity by unbolting the whole FIPL bracket!
MAKE SURE THIS PART OF YOUR SYSTEM IS OK AND YOUR FIPL IS OK:
*CHECK THE FIPL FIRST WITH AN OHM METER: Is the resistance about 4.5kohms bet. the 2 outside terminals.
*CHECK WITH YOUR FIPL PLUGGED IN and ignition ON (probe where the wires go into the FIPL. That plug comes out...): Is Vref=5V (almost exactly)? Is Vgnd a very small? Ignore the FIPL output for now which is the center terminal.
TAKE ACTION:
1) Mechanically mount the FIPL to the FIPL BRACKET first! Try hard to mechanically CENTER those T-15's in the FIPL holes as you do this. This will provide some lee-way for later.
2) Loosely mount the FIPL / BRACKET ASSY to the pump with the T27's.
**NOW YOU HAVE A CHOICE, gven your equipment.
Choose one as a starting point:
a) GET OUT YOUR GAGE BLOCK YOU MIGHT HAVE JUST MADE: With
no wire harness on the FIPL, adjust the FIPL / BRACKET ASSY while measuring RESISTANCE from the center terminal to the top terminal (gnd) to get ~1900ohms. Gently tighten the screws-- you may be revisiting them!
b) FORGET THE GAGE BLOCK AND USE THE DVOM METHOD WITH THE key ON: Important: UNplug the power to the fast idle solenoid, ...AND be sure your throttle return springs are holding the Throttle Lever with low speed idle screw set against its respective stop. Probe that center PIN on the FIPL and turn your bracket assy to get V=1.250 volts as a good initial point. Tighten the big T27 bracket screws.
Go for a drive-- you might have to iterate. Hopfully, you'll only have to move the FIPL-- not the big bracket.
**NOTE on your drive
-shift timing
-shift harshness/smoothness
-how readily the truck downshifts when you get on it a little.
Use your observations to help you make an iterative decision.
A higher FIPL output voltage will make your truck wind out farther in any gear and it will kick down more easily to a lower gear.
A NOTE ON FIPL ADJUSTMENT RANGE AND SENSITIVITY!!
The width of the FIPL output voltage window at IDLE is not big (just by loosening the litttle t15 FIPL mtg screws.). WINDOW SIZE~200mV. But within this window, you'll achieve an unbelievably different behavior from that transmission. I RECOMMEND YOU START AT 1.250V AND USE A STEP SIZE OF 0.040V (40mV) in your iteration / drives. Don't give up!
63Fairlane500--
Let me describe the FIPL, electrically, first.
If you Draw the FIPL as I describe:
Draw two resistors: a LONG one (vertically) and the shorter one (vertically) right below it. The long resistor represents the FIPL. The short resistor represents ALL undesired resistance in the ground path between the FIPL and the groung wire to the chassis.
The Long resistor (FIPL) has 3 terminals on it. On paper, make the top one Vref, the center one Vf, and the bottom one Vg. Call the total resistance of the FIPL Rtot (bet. the 2 outermost pins). Call the THAT PORTION of the Rtot of the long resistor that is between Vf and Vg "Rf".
Finally, label the short resistor Rg.
THE DESIRED OUTPUT FROM THE FIPL ON THIS DIAGRAM IS Vf. And Vf is a function of throttle position.... Vf vs. 'throttle position ' could be plotted on a chart and would be a straight line plotted on a chart (throttle pos on horizontal axis). This line would run from lower left to upper right.
This line is the bahavior we need from the FIPL. ALL METHODS I'VE EVER SEEN TO CALIBRATE OR SET THE FIPL simple pick one point of throttle postion and you rotate the FIPL to move this line VERTICALLY ONLY! But we all know that a line is defined by both a POINT and a SLOPE! FORD's design assumes the slope is a constant. And that if you set the FIPL at one point..., ALL operational points vs throttle position will be right! Well...they will be IF several things are controlled: The equation for the slope using the diagram you just drew is: slope=Vref/(Rtot+Rg). From this you can see that there are three important components that matter.
*Vref: better be an accurate 5V from the supply
*Rtot: this is the total FIPL resistance. They'd better be manufactured like peas in a pod!!
*Rg: the resistance in your ground path. Better be close to 0.
What I'm pointing out is that all of these are counted upon to produce a constant and repeatable slope so that we can get away with calibration at one position of throttle and have the Vf at all other positions of throttle KNOWN.
The fact that a FIPL can produce about 1.1V at idle and 4V at WOT, is ONE WAY OF ASSURANCE that the obtainable slope is about right. It is my own preference to measure each of the components of that slope equation above as I descrobed in the previous post!!
(1) UNPLUGGING THE HIGH IDLE SOLENOID: The voltages just over 1V are for the throttle resting against the low speed idle stop (not the plunger of the solenoid). If the engine is hot it wont matter, as the solenoid won't be energized.
(2) It was never intened to adust the FIPL with the big screws. That's why the bracket was epoxied on. Fine tune FIPL adjustment is accomplished by turning the FIPL within the slop allowance of the small mounting sccrews and is usually sufficient IF the big screws are set right. I would try to to this as it's easier to tweak the small ones anyway.
(3) A higher Vf voltage in your picture at any given throttle position will tend to make the transmission wind out farther in all gears before shifting. The trans may also down shift prematurely earlier, too. This result will be the same, though I was referring to making the observation and setting at IDLE.
(4) Those linkages are your throttle cable and cruise control cable. You may unsnap them from the pump and would to so IF you were using the 0.515" gage block. There are throttle rtrn springs by the pump body: they are ALREADY holding the arm in the low speed idle position IF you've UNPLUGGED THE High Idle solenoid!
-JF
Let me describe the FIPL, electrically, first.
If you Draw the FIPL as I describe:
Draw two resistors: a LONG one (vertically) and the shorter one (vertically) right below it. The long resistor represents the FIPL. The short resistor represents ALL undesired resistance in the ground path between the FIPL and the groung wire to the chassis.
The Long resistor (FIPL) has 3 terminals on it. On paper, make the top one Vref, the center one Vf, and the bottom one Vg. Call the total resistance of the FIPL Rtot (bet. the 2 outermost pins). Call the THAT PORTION of the Rtot of the long resistor that is between Vf and Vg "Rf".
Finally, label the short resistor Rg.
THE DESIRED OUTPUT FROM THE FIPL ON THIS DIAGRAM IS Vf. And Vf is a function of throttle position.... Vf vs. 'throttle position ' could be plotted on a chart and would be a straight line plotted on a chart (throttle pos on horizontal axis). This line would run from lower left to upper right.
This line is the bahavior we need from the FIPL. ALL METHODS I'VE EVER SEEN TO CALIBRATE OR SET THE FIPL simple pick one point of throttle postion and you rotate the FIPL to move this line VERTICALLY ONLY! But we all know that a line is defined by both a POINT and a SLOPE! FORD's design assumes the slope is a constant. And that if you set the FIPL at one point..., ALL operational points vs throttle position will be right! Well...they will be IF several things are controlled: The equation for the slope using the diagram you just drew is: slope=Vref/(Rtot+Rg). From this you can see that there are three important components that matter.
*Vref: better be an accurate 5V from the supply
*Rtot: this is the total FIPL resistance. They'd better be manufactured like peas in a pod!!
*Rg: the resistance in your ground path. Better be close to 0.
What I'm pointing out is that all of these are counted upon to produce a constant and repeatable slope so that we can get away with calibration at one position of throttle and have the Vf at all other positions of throttle KNOWN.
The fact that a FIPL can produce about 1.1V at idle and 4V at WOT, is ONE WAY OF ASSURANCE that the obtainable slope is about right. It is my own preference to measure each of the components of that slope equation above as I descrobed in the previous post!!
(1) UNPLUGGING THE HIGH IDLE SOLENOID: The voltages just over 1V are for the throttle resting against the low speed idle stop (not the plunger of the solenoid). If the engine is hot it wont matter, as the solenoid won't be energized.
(2) It was never intened to adust the FIPL with the big screws. That's why the bracket was epoxied on. Fine tune FIPL adjustment is accomplished by turning the FIPL within the slop allowance of the small mounting sccrews and is usually sufficient IF the big screws are set right. I would try to to this as it's easier to tweak the small ones anyway.
(3) A higher Vf voltage in your picture at any given throttle position will tend to make the transmission wind out farther in all gears before shifting. The trans may also down shift prematurely earlier, too. This result will be the same, though I was referring to making the observation and setting at IDLE.
(4) Those linkages are your throttle cable and cruise control cable. You may unsnap them from the pump and would to so IF you were using the 0.515" gage block. There are throttle rtrn springs by the pump body: they are ALREADY holding the arm in the low speed idle position IF you've UNPLUGGED THE High Idle solenoid!
-JF
side note;
dangit today is a holiday.i was going to take some $ out and go buy a used trailer today to make the day off worthwhile.son of a gun! i think i found a nice one.16' tandem in nice shape,just needs new brake shoes.
update,
went to look at that trailer (home built/not a full frame.not what im after) and driving there and back for around 25 miles or so round trip,she's running like a dream!
was confident enough in her that i headed out with intent to tow the trailer home,had she been a nice one.
so i guess thats,that.see ya latter code 62.your history without even getting grease under the nails.
so now iv got both wires run neatly and permanently into the cab via heat shrink connectors and wire loom.time to rig up the manual TC lock switch mod.although i don't know what on earth for,as she locks and stays there again like normal @ 35 ish mph.not sure id want to manually alter this for any reason anyway,but i guess since iv got the wires run now lol.
tapping into the purple/yellow tracer line is easy as pie right by the front drive shaft.wide open to work right there nicely.just split the loom a little where it goes up and cut right there.
most people hate safety/limp mode.
well,this saved me a lot of coin by having this mode show me my converter worked just fine.so i knew to explore other things.it's not a evil thing to see the od light flashing.can really save your trans and help narrow things down.
thank you safety/limp mode.you saved my converter.
#11
11-09-2011, 02:20 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wabanaki Indian Territory
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Code 62 revisited
good old code 62 come back around to give me another converter failure scare.not locking up again for me.
this time thankfully i got another code;
94: Transmission TCC circuit/solenoid problem.
with this code,i knew right where to investigate first.the solenoid body pack plug.wiped her up and smothered her to death this time with the grease.just what the doctor ordered it appears.locking right back up and remaining there again.
i also pulled all the relay's in the power distribution box and greased those too at the same time,before clearing the code.
62: excessive converter clutch slippage,seems to be a result that can often happen when something is wrong (as expected of course,as she is told to lock via a solenoid.) so don't get too nervous (though that's easier said than done lol) when the notorious code 62 decides to pay you a visit.
take your time to trace things out.in my case,i just took the day off to resolve this,as i was forced to keep working the truck through a job yesterday.i just watched my trans temps like a hawk knowing she was in "old school C6 mode". (i didn't buy a large enough aftermarket external cooler for an always open state,converter.just had to pull over after the hills for a min to maintain my 200ish max trans fluid temps.)
18 yr old wiring and connectors.as to be expected i suppose.sure is handy when you get a code that helps point you in the right direction.can really cut down on diagnosing time.
this time thankfully i got another code;
94: Transmission TCC circuit/solenoid problem.
with this code,i knew right where to investigate first.the solenoid body pack plug.wiped her up and smothered her to death this time with the grease.just what the doctor ordered it appears.locking right back up and remaining there again.
i also pulled all the relay's in the power distribution box and greased those too at the same time,before clearing the code.
62: excessive converter clutch slippage,seems to be a result that can often happen when something is wrong (as expected of course,as she is told to lock via a solenoid.) so don't get too nervous (though that's easier said than done lol) when the notorious code 62 decides to pay you a visit.
take your time to trace things out.in my case,i just took the day off to resolve this,as i was forced to keep working the truck through a job yesterday.i just watched my trans temps like a hawk knowing she was in "old school C6 mode".
(i didn't buy a large enough aftermarket external cooler for an always open state,converter.just had to pull over after the hills for a min to maintain my 200ish max trans fluid temps.)18 yr old wiring and connectors.as to be expected i suppose.sure is handy when you get a code that helps point you in the right direction.can really cut down on diagnosing time.
#13
11-09-2011, 03:53 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wabanaki Indian Territory
Posts: 18,724
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i would have bought one in a heartbeat if the price was right.they where still out of my price range though (to remain debt free) to buy,and convert to the truck i needed.
kinda glad though,cus i sure wouldn't want to miss out on the idi.way to good of an engine to never have the experience with that's for sure.
the E40D troubles...........i see why a lot of folks don't like their nags.kinda aggravating to have just a little wire mess ya up for a day.but ah well,so nice not having to shift anymore.i wouldn't go back to a stick no matter if she blows tomorrow.
kinda glad though,cus i sure wouldn't want to miss out on the idi.way to good of an engine to never have the experience with that's for sure.
the E40D troubles...........i see why a lot of folks don't like their nags.kinda aggravating to have just a little wire mess ya up for a day.but ah well,so nice not having to shift anymore.i wouldn't go back to a stick no matter if she blows tomorrow.
#14
11-09-2011, 04:39 PM
Postmaster
i would have bought one in a heartbeat if the price was right.they where still out of my price range though (to remain debt free) to buy,and convert to the truck i needed.
kinda glad though,cus i sure wouldn't want to miss out on the idi.way to good of an engine to never have the experience with that's for sure.
the E40D troubles...........i see why a lot of folks don't like their nags.kinda aggravating to have just a little wire mess ya up for a day.but ah well,so nice not having to shift anymore.i wouldn't go back to a stick no matter if she blows tomorrow.
kinda glad though,cus i sure wouldn't want to miss out on the idi.way to good of an engine to never have the experience with that's for sure.
the E40D troubles...........i see why a lot of folks don't like their nags.kinda aggravating to have just a little wire mess ya up for a day.but ah well,so nice not having to shift anymore.i wouldn't go back to a stick no matter if she blows tomorrow.
#15
11-09-2011, 07:56 PM
good old code 62 come back around to give me another converter failure scare.not locking up again for me.
this time thankfully i got another code;
94: Transmission TCC circuit/solenoid problem.
with this code,i knew right where to investigate first.the solenoid body pack plug.wiped her up and smothered her to death this time with the grease.just what the doctor ordered it appears.locking right back up and remaining there again.
i also pulled all the relay's in the power distribution box and greased those too at the same time,before clearing the code.
62: excessive converter clutch slippage,seems to be a result that can often happen when something is wrong (as expected of course,as she is told to lock via a solenoid.) so don't get too nervous (though that's easier said than done lol) when the notorious code 62 decides to pay you a visit.
take your time to trace things out.in my case,i just took the day off to resolve this,as i was forced to keep working the truck through a job yesterday.i just watched my trans temps like a hawk knowing she was in "old school C6 mode". (i didn't buy a large enough aftermarket external cooler for an always open state,converter.just had to pull over after the hills for a min to maintain my 200ish max trans fluid temps.)
18 yr old wiring and connectors.as to be expected i suppose.sure is handy when you get a code that helps point you in the right direction.can really cut down on diagnosing time.
this time thankfully i got another code;
94: Transmission TCC circuit/solenoid problem.
with this code,i knew right where to investigate first.the solenoid body pack plug.wiped her up and smothered her to death this time with the grease.just what the doctor ordered it appears.locking right back up and remaining there again.
i also pulled all the relay's in the power distribution box and greased those too at the same time,before clearing the code.
62: excessive converter clutch slippage,seems to be a result that can often happen when something is wrong (as expected of course,as she is told to lock via a solenoid.) so don't get too nervous (though that's easier said than done lol) when the notorious code 62 decides to pay you a visit.
take your time to trace things out.in my case,i just took the day off to resolve this,as i was forced to keep working the truck through a job yesterday.i just watched my trans temps like a hawk knowing she was in "old school C6 mode".
(i didn't buy a large enough aftermarket external cooler for an always open state,converter.just had to pull over after the hills for a min to maintain my 200ish max trans fluid temps.)18 yr old wiring and connectors.as to be expected i suppose.sure is handy when you get a code that helps point you in the right direction.can really cut down on diagnosing time.
A while back I was chasing a reoccuring code 62 in my small truck, the presence or absence of said code did not in any way affect the transmission's operation (in other words code 62 does not trigger failure-management aka limp-home mode) so it was more a matter of getting rid of annoyance than remedying a real clear and present issue. I tried different resistors for the TCC dummy signal to no avail, then Mark made that one post and things started to make sense: I had noticed that every time after a PCM reset even if I used the manual lockup for engine braking I would be code-free, then the moment I decide to use the converter as a gear-splitter and get on the throttle with the converter unlocked and trans in OD it was instant code 62 - if you think about it, a manually-locked converter at off-throttle does not violate that input/output speed test the PCM performs because at off-throttle the default converter command is "unlock", however when throttle goes off-idle the PCM commands the converter to lock and with the converter in manual gear-slitter mode that ain't happening, hence the increase of input speed without matching increase of output speed - hello code 62.
On the other hand, since the PCM monitors input speed through the engine, and output speed through the driveshaft, a code 62 does not necessarily mean the converter is about to let go - there are other clutches and what not between the converter and the trans output shaft too, so I'd imagine that if those were to slip to the PCM it would look just the same as if the converter itself was slipping. Now if there was a sensor in the trans telling the PCM the converter's own output speed then code 62 would in fact point straight to a failing converter, but this is not the case with the E4OD - and this is where the manual converter lockup mod comes real handy for diagnostics purposes, as you found out yourself - because with it you can test the converter alone for slip, when you throw the switch if engine speed drop is within range based on throttle input and gear selection, then the reason for code 62 is likely not the converter.
Another issue with that particular E4OD that I ran into years ago was the harness connector for the solenoid pack - the harness half of it had the wires develop insulation damage where they exited the connector (IMHO courtesy of the plastic plate retaining the rubber seal for the wires, years of vibration cause its sharp edges to cut right through the wires insulation) - I no longer remember what electrical gremlins those wires caused when they touched and "cross-fired", but my solution was to first cut and discard both the rubber seal and its retaining plate, then pull all wires one at a time, repair their strands as needed, apply two layers of heat-shrink over that, then once all wires were reinserted into the connector the entire connector where the rubber seal once lived was filled with epoxy - vibrate now if you can, you lousy SOB, vibrate, I dare ya! lol Actually I'd have reused the rubber seal, but the heat-shrink made the wires too fat thus swelling up the whole seal and not allowing it to even attempt to fit back in the connector. Then of course the bottom half (solenoid pack side) of the connector was packed with the dielectric grease, so even if its own seal (the one that actually seals between the two halves of the connector) was to crack no moisture/dirt/whatever would enter the areas where the contact pins live, but that's just regular maintenance for every frame harness connector on every vehicle I own.
And in case you're wondering - my small truck still has the constant code 62 and I still have the manual on/off setup of the converter, if I switched it to the auto/lock code 62 would go away as I'd lose the ability to override the PCM and command a manual unlock. Same would happen if I installed the off/auto/lock setup and never used its "off" feature, but that's just a waste of efforts IMHO. It's currently running a pair of 10-ohm power resistors to simulate voltage drop across the TCC solenoid for dummy signal purposes, but it seems that is not really needed at all, suppose I could pull them and the associated wiring out but I have no real reason to do so and the way my luck goes the moment I do that I will eff something else up, so till something fails in a major way all is being left as is.
This is all based on my own bricknose truck, my hellion had the same setup in her old truck as well but she always left the switch on manual-lock and relied on the safety relay to disengage the converter for her at low speeds (must be nice having the pump upgrades and a fancy triple-clutch converter) so there was just no way for the code 62 to set as she never ever commanded manual-unlock when the PCM wanted otherwise - so I'd imagine the farmer to whom she sold said truck is now happily running around with a code 62 stored in the PCM and he don't even know it, lol