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Old 10-02-2011, 12:53 PM
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Pinging under load

Hey guys, having a small issue with the truck and am getting ready to try something but want to make sure I'm directing my limited funds in the right direction.

Truck does and has run great. This past summer, while hauling my slide-in truck camper, I noticed that the truck pings under load while climbing hills. So last month I changed all of the plugs and boots. Gaps were out by quite a bit. Changed them out and truck stills runs well but the pinging remains. Seems to ping more when the rpms are lower while climbing. For example, when climbing the hill on the highway, while the truck is in 4th but the rpms are around 1600, she'll ping, but once the tranny kicks down and the rpms jump to 2500-3000, pinging goes away.

Looking at the truck, I've been wondering if the truck still has the original o2 sensors (they sure look original). My truck has two sensors, one on either side pre-cat, nothing post cat. Before I spring for a pair of new motorcraft o2's, could old oxygen sensors cause the motor to ping under load? Any other thoughts? Thanks.
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Old 10-02-2011, 05:15 PM
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A new set of Motorcraft O2 sensors will not hurt anything.

What octane fuel do you run when you experience the knock/ping?

If your running 87 octane my guess is your issue is fuel related probably caused by the ethanol content in the fuel. Both my dad and I all of a sudden had some a small amount of detonation both under 1500rpm and in the upper rpm range. It had to be fuel related and Mike agreed. Mike took a a hair of timing out and we were good. I figure the ethanol content changed in our area. Ethanol has a stoich of 9:1 and pure gas has a stoich of 14.7:1. E10s stoich is around the 14.1:1 area due to the ethanol. So with E10 you need slightly more fuel. A lean A/F ratio under load can cause detonation.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:17 AM
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No matter what fuel you are running, the knock sensor should take out 4 degrees of timing, and if it's still pinging, something is up.

Clean the MAF, change the fuel filter.

If it continues, try higher octane and see if it goes away. Report back.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:31 AM
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We spent a little time in BC & NS in September and we also had a little pinging going on and it's the fuel not the truck. The stations that had the worst was Trans- Canada (I think that's the name). When we got back into the lower 48 it went away just like it did when we went to Alaska but in Alaska it was really bad .

Denny
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:38 PM
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There is something that I've been thinking about the last few days and wondering if it's related. When I first bought the truck, it had (and continues to have) a a knocking/tapping noise on start up that sort of sounds like lifters or bottom end problems. However, once the truck warms up, the noise disappears. I think the former owner sold it cheap because he thought the bottom end was toast.

I've checked for the infamous broken exhaust studs and all seem to be good, but I remember reading about some people having cracked exhaust manifolds. Would a cracked manifold make a tapping sound cold but not hot, and potentially let air into the exhaust, messing up the o2 readings? Could that cause pinging under load at lower rpm?
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:06 PM
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Could the sound your describing be piston slap?

If its a very small crack in the manifold I would think it is possible for it to seal up when hot. It is possible a leak could mess up the O2 but the leak you describe sounds very small. The thing with cracks on castings is they usually only get bigger especially on a parts like exhaust manifolds which see a lot of heat/cool cycles. If there are no leaks around the flanges on the primaries you could have a leak at the ball flange, (where the y-pipe bolts to the maifolds) O2s or even at the triangular flange between the y-pipe and cat.

I've noticed that when the weather gets colder my truck is even more knock sensitive when lugged at lower rpms.(Like below 1500rpm in OD) When I fill up with pure 87 octane gas instead of E10 like I usually do the knock goes away. Ethanol is garbage.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:51 PM
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Up hill with a camper in OD makes me think the engine is just lugging. With my ZF5 OD is around 0.7:1 thats, asking alot when your trying to put torque to the ground. i'm not saying you do not have a problem with your truck. I'm just saying. I would lock out the OD in hills but again thats just me. Did you use motorcraft plugs with the right heat range? Is the thermostat the correct range? Does the EGR function properly maybe needs a clean cleaning?
New O2s at plug change makes sense.
Best of luck

My old girl clangs a little when the ambient air is around the freezing point. She has 275,000 km and shes done it for 220,000 km since I got her.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:03 PM
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Thanks for the responses. The pinging with the camper was whenever I climbed a hill, not just when the engine was lugging. However, when the truck is empty, it seems to ping when the engine rpm are below 2000 going up hill. Zedrive - as a fellow lower mainlander you're probably familiar with Horseshoe Bay. I notice it the most when climbing the hill out of the ferry terminal. Speed limits about 70km and the grade is close to 10%. Haven't ever checked the thermostat. Not sure if my truck has egr.

The plugs I used are Autolites, which apparently are made by Motorcraft and are considered comparable.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:59 PM
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I don''t have an auto trans so my opinion is just that but, the motor speaks.

I got the start at 23m, 0.6km up the hill your at 65m. 42m rise in 600m Thats a serious work out from basically a rolling start. I don't run my truck up there in OD. I try and run 2200 RPMs so when in need, the truck will launch. These trucks run on the edge of too lean right out of the box anywho.
I used to tow logs in Howe Sound. motored around Bowen waiting weather for many days, trying to cross to the ditch at Point grey.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvpuller View Post
We spent a little time in BC & NS in September and we also had a little pinging going on and it's the fuel not the truck. The stations that had the worst was Trans- Canada (I think that's the name). When we got back into the lower 48 it went away just like it did when we went to Alaska but in Alaska it was really bad .

Denny
I just went on a 13K km trip and it pinged all the way down the west coast to Calif. but as soon as I moved inland towards Utah, Colorado and Wyoming the pinging stopped. Weird cause it was always the same brand fuel and octane. I'd expect it to ping more in the mountains. Mine has always pinged on 87 here, I wonder if they use a different fuel mix on the coast.
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Old 10-17-2011, 07:59 PM
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from what i understand its a problem with the stock fuel map from Ford..

getting a 5star SCT really helps the engine breath properly, and really helps get rid of unwanted pinging..

for what its worth my truck does the same thing..with the 35" tires she REALLY doesnt like being worked below 2200RPM.. above that its a totaly different engine.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:28 PM
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Pretty sure the stock tuning on the 2Vs ran stoich all the time unless the engine or catylist was over temp. Stoich under high loads can be too lean and cause detonation. Ethanol just leans the A/F out further. My 04' would never go into open loop with light to WOT throttle input.
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf View Post
Pretty sure the stock tuning on the 2Vs ran stoich all the time unless the engine or catylist was over temp. Stoich under high loads can be too lean and cause detonation. Ethanol just leans the A/F out further. My 04' would never go into open loop with light to WOT throttle input.

exactly...thats what i understood aswell..
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf View Post
Pretty sure the stock tuning on the 2Vs ran stoich all the time unless the engine or catylist was over temp. Stoich under high loads can be too lean and cause detonation. Ethanol just leans the A/F out further. My 04' would never go into open loop with light to WOT throttle input.
Ditto. Mike@5-star's tunes make it go open-loop at WOT... I can verify that with datalogging, before and after
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepherd2 View Post
I just went on a 13K km trip and it pinged all the way down the west coast to Calif. but as soon as I moved inland towards Utah, Colorado and Wyoming the pinging stopped. Weird cause it was always the same brand fuel and octane. I'd expect it to ping more in the mountains. Mine has always pinged on 87 here, I wonder if they use a different fuel mix on the coast.
I have always found the the V10 will have a little more ping at sea level, when you get up it the higher altitudes you can go down to 85 octane without any ping at all. We have also found that the fuel on the west coast and especially California and Washington may not be the best. We have run our 2000 V10 pulling our trailer in 49 states and 6 provinces and we have seen a lot of different types of fuel problems over the years and a lot changes in quality form state to state and areas of the US and Canada. We can also say that the worst fuel we have encountered was in Alaska, I didn't know our V10 could ping that bad.

BC hauler your problem may be in your Y pipe if you have a early production 2001. Ford changed my Y pipe to a later production style to get rid of the type of noise you are describing. I would do a search to see the difference in the two different pipes to see if you have a early one.

We are still on the road going down the east coast on our way to Florida so we have limited internet access unit the end of the month so I don't want to look it up, maybe someone else can.

Denny
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