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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

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Old 09-23-2011, 11:44 PM
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Hi Guys . Sorry it's been awhile. Been watching the site but haven't had much time to post anything. Been taking most of my free time working on the 54 M-350. Working outside so had to take advantage of the weather. Will do some post on progress when time allows.
Here's my question, it's been bugging me for years. What is the exact difference between a 351W and a 351 HO??
Bye for now. Hope every one has had a good summer.
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:54 PM
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Which HO are we talking about? Back in the early 70's, Ford had a version of the 351 Cleveland designated as HO (high output), which was a detuned, low compression Boss 351, but different from the 351 Cobra Jet (CJ). Sounds crazy, huh? You kind of needed a program to keep them all straight, back then.

In 1983/84, can't remember exactly which, Ford introduced a version of the 351W in pickups called the 351/5.8L HO, to piggyback off the popularity of the 302/5.0L HO used in the Mustangs. It had an aluminum 4V intake with a Motorcraft/Holley carb and a marine camshaft. At the same time, they ended production of the 351M/400 series of engines.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:38 AM
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Which HO are we talking about? Back in the early 70's, Ford had a version of the 351 Cleveland designated as HO (high output), which was a detuned, low compression Boss 351, but different from the 351 Cobra Jet (CJ). Sounds crazy, huh? You kind of needed a program to keep them all straight, back then.

In 1983/84, can't remember exactly which, Ford introduced a version of the 351W in pickups called the 351/5.8L HO, to piggyback off the popularity of the 302/5.0L HO used in the Mustangs. It had an aluminum 4V intake with a Motorcraft/Holley carb and a marine camshaft. At the same time, they ended production of the 351M/400 series of engines.
Hi Wayne . Good to hear from you. It's the 84-86 F-150's I,m thinking about. I had an 84 with a 351W on straight propane and 85 with a 351HO on straight propane. The 84 still had original 2 barrel carb with the propane valve mounted on top of it, the 85 had a propane carb, the 84 had way more power than 85. I now have a 85, F-150 with a 351HO on gas with a 4 barrel Holley, it's a real power house but one can't aford to feed it to often. This is basically why I am wondering what the difference is. I still have the 84 out back, run the body off it, engine still o.k. Been pondering about maybe using one or the other in my 56 F-!00 some day.
Thanks for the come back. Bye for now.
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:38 PM
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I would guess the difference in power between your 85 gas and 85 propane would be the propane carb setup or tuning, whatever is different about that. In 85, the 5.8HO got a new head which was also used on the 5.0/5 speed GT Mustangs. (the automatic 5.0 Mustangs that year didn't get the same engine). It made more power than previous versions. It's been too many years ago for me to remember all the details.

Fuel mileage was never the strong suit of the 5.8, and didn't get much better than the 460, if at all, with way less power. That's why, 20 years ago when I was 3/4 ton work truck shopping, I chose the 460. In a lighter truck with an o/d trans and tuned correctly, I think the 351 would be a good choice in a 56 F-100. Using the propane setup in an old truck would be intriguing.
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Old 09-26-2011, 12:58 AM
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Hi again. I'm guessing that putting Cleveland heads on a 351W or on a 351HO one would end out with about the same results power wise?
On the propane subject I found it to be a great economical fuel. About 10-12 yrs ago I remember at times paying $.10 a liter but normally around $.15-.17 less per liter than regular gas. One down fall is that as a road fuel I don't think it is as available in the U.S. as it is here in Canada. With a fairly high compression ratio and proper cam one should get good power and economy.
Got me thinking. 56 F-100 already has a 9 in. diff, I have both a direct and a O.D. 4 spd. top loader. Might be able fit something together. All I need is more time and money. Oh well.
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Old 09-26-2011, 01:22 AM
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While the Cleveland heads will physically bolt onto the Windsor block, there's a couple of semi-major issues you'll run into. First, the deck height between the two engines is different, so finding an intake manifold will be problematic. Second, the water distribution system is different. The Cleveland has a dry intake, no water transfer between the heads and intake. There's no port for the water to make it back to the radiator via the intake Windsor style, (Clevelands have a water neck sticking out of the top of the block, in front of the intake) without custom drilling, welding and machine work to mate to the custom intake manifold you won't be able to easily find. Sorry.
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:40 AM
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There is a company that is selling all the components for running Cleveland heads on the Windsor block. There was something in ne of the recent mags I get. The company or the the set is called CLEVOR (for Cleveland/Windsor) Do a search and you should find what you need, the make intakes just for this swap. Hope this helps
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:48 AM
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Here is an article on the engine. The name of the company is Bush Performance Engines in Arkansas. Here you go, hope this helps more.

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Old 09-27-2011, 12:49 AM
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While the Cleveland heads will physically bolt onto the Windsor block, there's a couple of semi-major issues you'll run into. First, the deck height between the two engines is different, so finding an intake manifold will be problematic. Second, the water distribution system is different. The Cleveland has a dry intake, no water transfer between the heads and intake. There's no port for the water to make it back to the radiator via the intake Windsor style, (Clevelands have a water neck sticking out of the top of the block, in front of the intake) without custom drilling, welding and machine work to mate to the custom intake manifold you won't be able to easily find. Sorry.
Hi Wayne . My son is a bit of a Cleveland nut, he put me onto this Bogus Boss thing a few years ago. At that time intakes were a real problem. Tonight he showed me a number of web sites that have anything one would want to do this. After market heads, intakes, intake adapters, proper pistons, thermostat housings ect. As for altering Cleveland heads I wouldn't be afraid to tackle it myself from what I've read so far. But like I said before, have engines, have heads, have diff, have p/u,but time and money, and to many projects already. Nice to dream though.
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:04 PM
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Clevor arrangements have been around for years and years and back in the 70's and 80's they were THE setup for serious performance with a Ford small block. They do have drawback above and beyond the intake and coolant flow problems, though. Cleveland heads come in a couple different varieties: open chamber 2 bbl, open chamber 4 bbl, closed chamber 4 bbl, and Australian closed chamber 2 bbl. The 4 bbl heads in either flavor have massive intake ports and valves that all but kill low-end torque potential. They'll scream once it gets wound up, but they're kinda weak around town. The ports on the 2 bbl heads are about ideal, but the most readily available open chamber castings have zero quench and make for an engine prone to spark knock and possible piston damage. With their closed chambers and more useful port and valve sizes, the best heads are the Aussie pieces, but you'll have to pay a premium for them from an importer. Clevors are a neat concept and make for a cool engine, but they are NOT a cheap motor to build.

Long story short, the Clevors served a purpose and filled a niche in their day when they were the only game in town. But with today's proliferation of small block Ford aftermarket heads, by the time you pay for a good set of Aussie heads, have them rebuilt and modified for screw-in studs, etc., make all the cooling mods, and then pay big bucks for a custom intake, you'd be at lest a grand farther into it than what you'd have spent to buy a set of modern aluminum aftermarket heads that will run circles around a Clevor. Just something to think about!
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