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  #1  
Old 09-18-2011, 12:35 AM
fludoc fludoc is offline
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Cranks but no start - no smoke

95 F350 - I've had some issues starting on occasion but last time I tried to start it cranked cranked but wouldn't start. At first there was a little white smoke coming out of exhaust, from the fuel, but then that stopped completely and it never did fire. Now when I turn it over I don't even get the white smoke.

We pulled out the filter to see if it was getting fuel into the housing and couldn't be sure. Anyone have any suggestions why I wouldn't be getting fuel (the filter isn't that old)? Are there fuel pumps in the tanks or just on the motor? Is there an electronic switch or something that could be failing??

Any idears fellers? BTW, please keep it simple for me; I can do just about anything but I'm not up on all the abbreviations and technical terms tat most of you that actually know what your doing tend to use.

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Old 09-18-2011, 01:13 AM
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Does your tac bounce while cranking?

Do you have a WTS light (wait to start)

How much fuel was in the fuel bowl when you pulled the filter?
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:43 PM
fludoc fludoc is offline
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I don't recall that the tach ever bounced around when starting.

Yes it has a wts lite, always has.

After pulling the filter out it was half to two thirds full. Approximately
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Old 09-18-2011, 04:20 PM
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Fuel filter displaces a lot of fuel so pulling it out and you had 1/2 -2/3 in the bowl is probably OK. Asking about the WTS light is just a good troubleshooting question because it eliminates some unnecessary troubleshooting.

These engines need to spin over pretty fast to start. I don't know the history on your rig but years since the battery's have been changed and has the starter ever been changed? Can't tell you how may fixes have been made by simply replacing both batteries and sometimes just the starter.

If you have had the truck for a few months / years then you probably could give a little more history which is helpful for us. Also where are you located because climate has some factors which must be considered.
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Old 09-18-2011, 06:00 PM
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The batteries are new so they're not the issue. I've owned one of these for over 8 years and have driven diesels for over 25 years so I know enough to be dangerous. And/or stupid enough to think I can figure this out.

I'm fairly certain that it's a fuel issue since any other time I've ever experience a firing issue, from glow plugs or cold start type of stuff, there is always plenty of white smoke and fuel odor from unburnt fuel. In this situation I have none of that. I'm trying to determine if this has multiple fuel pumps in the tanks or just one on the motor or if there might be some type of relay that controls the distribution of fuel or maybe the injector pump???? I don't know, this is just my original theory that another PSD owner concurred with; it could be that we're both lost.
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Old 09-18-2011, 06:24 PM
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These trucks have one fuel pump on top of the engine in front of the turbo. No injector pump they have high pressure oil pumps (HPOP). If your tac is not moving the the cam sensor could be bad and if so the PCM won't fire the injectors. If your don't have a wait to start light then the PCM is not powered.
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Old 09-18-2011, 06:27 PM
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You need to find out if you are getting HP oil pressure while cranking ..If you don't nave a scanner you can crack one of the lines while cranking .. I suspect Injector driver module (IDM) , or the Injector pressure regulator ( IPR) ...Cam position sensor ( CPS ) is a cheap test ..Do that first ...
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:01 PM
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Changed cps, no change. Tach moves for sure now but still no white smoke, no fuel smell and definitely no starting. Where are these other 2 items you refer to and how do you check them...or do you just replace them?

Is there some type of fuel shut off sensor or something? When this happened the truck was producing white smoke but then the smoke just up and went away. Like the fuel was disconnected.

I've looked through the site and have found this issue comes up a lot but nobody ever seems to tell how they finally solved the issue. Unless of course there are a bunch of trucks sitting around in driveways falling of their frames.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:01 AM
540milotalon 540milotalon is offline
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Do you have manuals? Without some sort of scan tool you are changing parts. Auto Enginnuity -A/E gets a lot of use here. On the '96 IDM went out it cut out 1/2 of the engine, made diagnosing easier. Water in it. Also when one side of the IPR wiring clip broke it lost connection, shut down and had same symptoms you have. '95 had similar symptoms with valve cover wiring burned. Just unplugging and looking showed discolored/heat signs. Saw one poster cleaned his screen in the fuel bowl and corrected similar problems. It's process of elimination but A/E makes it a little easier sometimes.
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fludoc View Post
Changed cps, no change. Tach moves for sure now but still no white smoke, no fuel smell and definitely no starting. Where are these other 2 items you refer to and how do you check them...or do you just replace them?

Is there some type of fuel shut off sensor or something? When this happened the truck was producing white smoke but then the smoke just up and went away. Like the fuel was disconnected.

I've looked through the site and have found this issue comes up a lot but nobody ever seems to tell how they finally solved the issue. Unless of course there are a bunch of trucks sitting around in driveways falling of their frames.
Unfortunately you can only test the IPR with a gauge set up . you have to dead head the pump while cranking .You can test ICP with a scanner also , its a bit more complicated . Have you tried unplugging the ICP sensor & tried starting ?It is the angled 3 wire sensor on the left head near the lifting ring .. The IDM can set a code in the PCM , but the easiest test is to try a known good one ..

IPR location Name:  IPR clear Pic.jpg
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IDM location Name:  user531986_pic45253_1283733810.jpg
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You may want to carefully test the IPR for 12 v also .

The best place to do this is from the main harness on the side of the fuel bowl . All the sensors there are 12v..
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:49 PM
fludoc fludoc is offline
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What type of gauges are you talking about to test the IPR and what exactly am I testing? How about the 12 volt issue, what posts should I be checking (or not touching) for voltage?

Is the "scanner" different from the gauges you mention or same thing and what am I looking for in the ICP? I did unplug it and turned over the engine but nothing changed.

Where does the scanner plug in on these things? I have a 97 expedition with the plug under the dash on it but there is nothing similar in the same location on the truck.

Thanks to those who are working with me on this. I only get to mess with it in bits and pieces so it's taking a while.
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:05 AM
540milotalon 540milotalon is offline
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On my '95 the OBD II location is the same as the '96, only it is oriented toward the floor. Where the '96 and newer plugs straight in the '95 must be plugged up from the floor since it is directed that way.

I believe you will want a Digital Volt Ohm Meter-for checking voltage on some sensors.

A scan tool will plug into the OBD II Diagnostic Port/Plug

Several posters recommended I have a manual hand held pressure gauge so I built one. By changing gauge and or fittings I check fuel pressure and oil pressure. These will allow you test pressure at ICP and IPR ports.

Part #'s on my fuel gauge set up are-(1)#4MB-#4MJIC (#4 male boss to #4 male JIC)
(1)#4FJX-#4MJIC90 (#4 female swivel by #4 male JIC 90egree fitting)
40"-60" of 5000 (or so) PSI hyd. hose with a 0-100 psi gauge on one end and a #4FJX ( #4 female swivel fitting) on other end. I then have adapters to use on OBS fuel systems and an adapter (and 5000 psi gauge) #5 male boss -I think- to check HPOP as well. Sorry, you should be able to get these fittings at any place that makes hyd. hose repairs or at least understands it.

Try these manuals, courtesy "Copedawg":

1994.5 - 1997 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums
97-15A 7.3L DI Turbo Workshop Manual
1996 Bronco/F-Series Workshop Manual
Comprehensive Chevrolet, Saturn, GMC, Hummer, Cadillac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Geo, Dodge, Plymouth, Jeep, Chrysler, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda Truck, Mercedes VIN Decoder
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'90-250 4x4 w/'93 7.3 IDI straight pipe K&N,
'89-250 4x4 7.3 IDI straight pipe K&N,300k+
'87-250 4x4 6.9 IDI w/Banks Turbo,GW 4 speed
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Last edited by 540milotalon; 10-01-2011 at 08:09 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:14 AM
540milotalon 540milotalon is offline
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The manuals should have come across as "links" I do not why they did not. You can use them as reference on here by doing a search and find the manuals as a link to click on. Or the moderator may fix it for me. I tried twice. I have posted or emailed them to others, maybe not enough coffee yet?
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'96 250 4x4 5 spd,Ext.cab, several mods
'95 350 2X4 5 spd, similar to above mods
'90-250 4x4 w/'93 7.3 IDI straight pipe K&N,
'89-250 4x4 7.3 IDI straight pipe K&N,300k+
'87-250 4x4 6.9 IDI w/Banks Turbo,GW 4 speed
'83F-350 2x4 6.9 IDI K&N, with 125k on 2/26/11
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:27 PM
fludoc fludoc is offline
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hpop problem??

Well, here's what's new and exciting.....

I had a real live mechanic come over and he ran a scan on the engine and found that it had low or no oil pressure from the hpop. He checked the hpop reservoir and found that it was almost empty (took almost a quart to fill) and after filling the truck started right up.

I came home from work rather excited that I could now drive my truck again but when I went to start it it had the same problem. Mike, the mechanic, (there's a cool band name there somewhere.....) seems to think the check valve in the hpop is bad and allowing the oil to drain back into the pan.

Does that sound likely or is there something else, less involved and/or expensive, that we should look at prior to tearing into this???? It appears from what I've been told that replacing the valve is time consuming and therefore very expensive to pay someone who knows what they're doing. I don't mind doing it IF that is the last possibility.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:27 PM
 
 
 
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