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  #1  
Old 04-04-2003, 09:59 PM
alicenfred alicenfred is offline
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

How does the 6.8 Triton motor stack up to the new 6.0 Powerstoke? I have always preferred gas over diesel.
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Old 04-15-2003, 06:26 AM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

If my memory serves me right the 6.8L V-10 has 310 hp and 450 lb ft of torque while the 6.0L PSD has 325 hp and 550 lb ft. I love the old 7.3L PSD and the new 6.0 PSD (though we have had a few recall isssues with the new 6.0L already)

With that in mind I would still not hesitate to recommend the 6.8L to anyone who is looking at a SuperDuty. The V-10 is a powerful, reliable and considering it's displacement and power output, a reasonably efficient.

Unless you are looking for a workhorse that will live a long life of towing and or hauling of very heavy loads the V-10 gasser will serve you well all the while knowing that you saved over $5000 at purchase time (we have of both in many of our heavyduty work truck)

I'm sure others will chime in with more details such as resale (if you pay more for the PSD, you should expect a bit more back at resale) Fuel mileage (6.8L V-10 returns about 11-13 mpg while 6.0L PSD gives about 16-18 mpg) but then there is the issues of fuel availability and cost (diesl is running a bit more the reg unl now) and maintenance cost to consider (PSD oil changes cost twice as much for example)

All in all, if you like gasser, get one . . . if diesels are your flavor, the 6.0L PSD is a very good design..
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Old 04-15-2003, 11:33 PM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

I like your post Petrol. I think the numbers you gave were correct too. I'm happy with the 6.8 for my needs. It does a great job when pulling a trailer and has plenty of power for me. I'm sure a diesel would get better fuel milage, but as mentioned, a diesel costs more to maintain and more upfront and the cost of diesel has gotten to be higher than gas. It's all up to your preference. I think the 6.0 diesel would be great if you are planning on towing a heavy load a lot of the time and needed all the power. It is really hard to compare a gas to a diesel though since they are built for different kinds of power. If you get a 6.8 V10 I really don't think you would be disappointed. Oh yeah, I usually get 12-13 mpg and that is just short 7 mile trips maybe on gravel roads, and have gotten as high as 16 before, so the V10 does reasonable for fuel milage for the power it provides.
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Old 04-16-2003, 12:20 AM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

The 6.0L diesel puts out 325 HP and 560 ft-lbs of torque. I know, it's only 10 ft-lbs, but is still 5 more ft-lbs then the Cummins and 40 more then the Duramax.
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Old 04-16-2003, 08:52 AM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

Quote:
Originally posted by Petrol
If my memory serves me right the 6.8L V-10 has 310 hp and 450 lb ft of torque while the 6.0L PSD has 325 hp and 550 lb ft. I love the old 7.3L PSD and the new 6.0 PSD (though we have had a few recall isssues with the new 6.0L already)

With that in mind I would still not hesitate to recommend the 6.8L to anyone who is looking at a SuperDuty. The V-10 is a powerful, reliable and considering it's displacement and power output, a reasonably efficient.

Unless you are looking for a workhorse that will live a long life of towing and or hauling of very heavy loads the V-10 gasser will serve you well all the while knowing that you saved over $5000 at purchase time (we have of both in many of our heavyduty work truck)

I'm sure others will chime in with more details such as resale (if you pay more for the PSD, you should expect a bit more back at resale) Fuel mileage (6.8L V-10 returns about 11-13 mpg while 6.0L PSD gives about 16-18 mpg) but then there is the issues of fuel availability and cost (diesl is running a bit more the reg unl now) and maintenance cost to consider (PSD oil changes cost twice as much for example)

All in all, if you like gasser, get one . . . if diesels are your flavor, the 6.0L PSD is a very good design..
A few points to make concerning your post, the 6.0 Power Stroke makes 560 lb/ft of torque, not 550. Also, concerning the initial cost of the diesel, the number you gave was the MSRP number for the diesel. Noone pays MSRP. That being said, you're right, you should expect to get more for the diesel at resale. The bottom line is that extra cost will be recouperated by additional resale value + break even point. Even if you have not reached the break even point, you will still come out at least even because the truck is still worth more money.

The mileage you posted for the 6.0 I don't think is representative of what the engine will ultimately do. Some people are reporting about 20 MPG already. I've seen one guy on another forum that has claimed 23 MPG out of his 6.0 Power Stroke. Keep in mind that most people have not "broken in" their trucks yet and the mileage will increase. 20 MPG compared to 12 MPG is a huge difference. Let's say that the cost of regular gas is $1.60/gallon. In order to have the same overall fuel cost per mile the diesel would have to cost $2.67/gallon. To look at things from the reverse scenario since diesel has been so high this winter, let's say that diesel is $2.00/gallon. Regular gas would have to be $1.20/gallon to have the same fuel cost per mile. Even with the higher diesel prices, the fuel use cost still offsets the cost of the additional maintenance. If you change the oil yourself, there really isn't too much of a difference at all. Other than the additional oil, the only other added maintenance is the fuel filter every 15,000 miles, and that only costs a little less than $14.

I'm not trying to bash anyone or their opinions, but the information was incomplete.
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Old 04-16-2003, 11:15 AM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

John, it's clear that you love your diesel. I have no problem with that for I like them as well.

I am sorry for the mis posted 10 lb ft of torque. As I had said "if my memory serves me" It did not. I was corrected by a later post and saw no need to edit my original post.

Then PSD option $$$ figure I gave is not MSRP. I think actual MSRP for the diesel is $5667 above the cost of the standard 5.4L V-8. I think the V-10 option is $525 above the cost of the 5.4L V-8. I tried to give a good number but as you say, MSRP can be haggled down. Let's see, with a $45k truck you may be able to get them down to $38k, that's 15% off 'retail' . . . apply that same discount to the cost of the diesel and it still will cost you more then $4350 MORE then the V-10 at the time of purchase.

As for resale, it's a mixed bag at best. Everyone knows that 90% of all SuperDuty trucks come from the factory with the PSD so finding a used V-10 is a little tough . . . But I did find a '01 F250 XLT w/ V-10 at a local dealer. It just happens that the same dealer had a '01 F250 Lariet w/ 7.3 PSD as well! Both had less then 40,000 miles and are in great condition yet the asking price for for them is within $2500 and the PSD is in the 'up-scale Lariet! Leather and all!

As for the MPG . . . the numbers I posted for both the V-10 and the 6.0 PSD are "Real World" averages for V-10 and 6.0 PSD equipt trucks in our fleet based on many, many tanks of fuel, NOT just a "Best Ever" single tank or trip computer calculation.

I think you have me all wrong. I like diesels, I just am able to see that for the "personal use" owner who rarely tows the rated capacity, does not routinily load the bed with tons of stuff, run more then 60,000 miles a year or plan on logging over 300,000 miles before replacing their truck, they may just be better off with the V-10 . . . unless of-course they simply WANT the PSD . . .it is their money after all and many of my friends question my need for an 8 passanger SUV that routinely carries only one driver, lol.
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Old 04-16-2003, 12:15 PM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

Petrol, my point was that even if you trade in your diesel before the break even point you will still at least "break even" with the combined cost savings + additional value. The only negative is that you have to front the additional money for the diesel option up front. If anyone tows anything of reasonable weight I would not hesitate to recommend the diesel over the V10. While the V10 is certainly competant, the Power Stroke greatly outperforms the V10. It's night and day. I agree, buy what you like or want. The cost of the diesel option is more of an up front cost though rather than a "down the drain" cost.
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Old 04-16-2003, 05:09 PM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

I JUST BOUGHT NEW IN FEB. AND I CHECKED OUT BOTH THE V-10 AND THE 6.0 LONG AND HARD BEFORE I PLACED MY ORDER. AFTER DRIVING BOTH WITHIN MINUTES OF EACH OTHER I DECIDED PERFORMANCE GOES TO THE V-10, BUT NOT BY MUCH. PULLING DEFINATLY SEES THE DIESEL AS THE WINNER. MPG?=DIESEL.
AS FAR AS $ THE V-10 WAS THE BIG WINNER FOR ME. I RARELY KEEP A VEHICLE LONGER THAN 75,000 MILES SO MAKING UP IN FUEL SAVINGS WOULD NOT WORK FOR ME. I USUALLY PULL 12,000LBS OR LESS WHICH THE V-10 HANDLES FINE AND LONGEVITY AS STATED ABOVE IS NOT AN ISSUE.
WHEN YOU START TALKING PURCHASE PRICE THERE ARE MORE THINGS TO CONSIDER THAN I SEE MENTIONED HERE.
1.) DEALER INVOICE SHOWS A DIFFERENCE OF APPROX. $4000.00 IN FAVOR OF THE V-10 FOR ENGINES.
2.) SINCE I AM A STICK TYPE OF GUY AND AT THE TIME I WAS TOLD THE 6.0 WOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE WITH A STICK FOR ALMOST A YEAR (I BELIEVE I WAS LIED TO) I WOULD HAVE BEEN FORCED TO GET THE AUTO WHICH WOULD INVOICE AT APPROX. $1200.00
3.)FACTORY INCENTIVES MAKE A DIFERENCE AND AT THE TIME OF MY PURCHASE THERE WAS A $2500.00 REBATE WITH THE V-10 AND $0 WITH THE DIESEL.
ADD THOSE UP AND MY "REAL MONEY" DIFFERENCE WOULD HAVE COST ME APPROX. $7700.00 MORE FOR THE DIESEL. I WOULD HAVE TO KEEP THAT TRUCK A VERY LOOOOONG TIME TO MAKE UP THAT DIFFERENCE EVEN WHEN YOU CONSIDER RESALE.
AFTER DRIVING THAT NEW PSD I CAN SAY IT IS ONE BAD DUDE AND I'D LIKE TO HAVE ONE BUT I COULD'NT JUSTIFY THE EXTRA MONEY. PLUS I THINK THE V-10 IS ALSO A FINE MOTOR WHICH DOES MOST THINGS I ASK OF IT. EITHER WAY YOUR STILL GETTING A FORD.
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Old 04-16-2003, 10:04 PM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

blueovalman, even if you keep a truck 75,000 miles and sell it you will still at least break even. Generally 100,000 miles is considered the break even point. The added value of your truck plus 75% of the break in time would put you at least even. Just out of curiousity, what's the 0-60 time on the V10. The new turbo on the diesel lets it act like a turbo off the line and I've heard 0-60 times of 9.0 seconds. Obviously the diesel wins the towing comparison, but I'm wondering if it's quicker as well. It is 325 HP, a little higher than the V10.
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Old 04-17-2003, 08:37 AM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

Here's a good example to prove my point. Here are 2 trucks I found listed on www.autotrader.com:

1999 F250 XLT
7.3L Power Stroke Diesel
Crew Cab
4x4
63,832 miles
$28,999

1999 F250 XLT
6.8L V10
Crew Cab
4x4
59,369 miles
$24,980

Even if you traded in a diesel after 60,000 miles you will get back more money at time of sale.

Diesel
Cost of fuel over 60,000 miles $5822 (3529 gallons x
$1.65/gallon-assumes 17 MPG which is conservative)
Additional cost at oil change $450 (assuming 4000 miles)
Additional fuel filter cost $60 (assuming 15,000 mile changes)

V10
Cost of fuel over 60,000 miles $7384 (4615 gallons x
$1.60/gallon-assumes 13 MPG which is liberal)

The Diesel has already saved $1000 dollars and this is a worst case scenario. Most areas of the country spend at least 1/2 the year with diesel fuel cheaper than regular gasoline. The mileage used for the Diesel is very conservative. I have even gotten 20 MPG on my 1997 4x4 with a 4.10 rear end on flat highway. People have gotten as many as 23 MPG with the new engine. The V10 mileage is quite liberal. A lot of people get far worse mileage with a 4x4 V10 truck than 13 MPG. When you take into consideration towing and hauling, the mileage gap widens even further. If you do your own oil changes, the additional cost of oil for the diesel is only about $20. Assuming 19 MPG and 12 MPG, the owner changes their own oil, and the cost of diesel and regular gas averages the same price for the year, the savings would be $2588 (doesn't take into consideration mileages for towing or hauling or the fact that diesel is usually cheaper than regular gas in most parts of the country).

I know this is rather lengthy, but I guess I'm still trying to figure out what these additional maintenance costs are that I'm supposed to have with a diesel engine. There aren't that many, and the engine can make it to 250,000 miles or more before an overhaul.
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:50 PM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

I went through a similar decision recently and here are the numbers I came up with. Letís look at a base model F-250 XL 4WD SC SB Auto with either the 6.0L deisel or 6.8L gas. All prices are INVOICE prices. Loan rates are for 5 years and I assume a 22% tax bracket and dealer oil changes. This was a realistic scheme for me, but your needs may be different.

Base model (5.4 V8) $23,722 INVOICE

V10 $510
4-speed auto $931
Engine block heater $30
--------
$1471

6.0 liter deisel $4323
5-speed TS auto $1258
Engine block heater $0
--------
$5581

V10 auto = $23,722 + $1471 Ė $2,500 rebate = $22,693

6.0 PSD auto = $23,722 + $5581 = $29,303

Difference in INVOICE price = $6610

+ 7% sales tax ($462.70) = $7072

5 year loan at 5% interest on $7072 = total payment of $8008.20 or $133.47/month for 60 months.

Alternatively, for the V10, investing $133.47/month into a guaranteed 3.0% account would yeild $8638.19 after taxes on the interest in the 22% tax bracket. If you have have an existing loan with greater than 3% interest that you can pay off with the $133.47/month the difference could be considerably more.

Differences in operating and fuel costs are going to depend mostly on the area where you live. If you live in a cold climate like MN donít forget that deisel fuel is solid for about half the year which means youíll be burning Winter blend deisel and using the engine block heater at night. If you plug in a 1000 Watt engine block heater for 8 hours at night thatís 8kWH of energy. At $.09/kWH to the electric company thatís $.72/day.

Iíve been pretty **** about calculating mpg of my V-10. In stock configuration I have been getting 14.5 mpg empty at 62 mph on our local highways with winter oxy 87 and temps from 5 below to 40 F.

3000 miles/month and severe service schedule of oil change every 3,000 miles

V10 fuel and operating cost per month
3000 miles @ 14.5 mpg @ $1.50/gallon = $310.34
+ $24.95 dealer oil change
+ 2 days x $.72/day electric bill
= $336.73

6.0 L PSD Fuel and operating cost (starting with V10 cost) per month
$336.73 Ė $80 dealer oil change Ė (14 days x $.72/day electric bill) Ė 1/fourth fuel filter ($6.25) = $240.4/month for deisel fuel

With deisel in MN about 10% higher than gas in fall and winter and equal in the summer, I use an average of 5% higher for deisel fuel cost

So $240.4 / ($1.575/gallon) = 152.6 gallons of deisel. 3000/152.6 = 19.2 mpg needed to break even on fuel and operating costs vs V10. If you get 23 mpg with the PSD you would only need 130.43 gallons per month and thus save $34.92/month vs the V10. To be fair to the V10 owner this would decrease the payments to your 3% account from 133.47 to $98.55/month. This would yield $6378.16 in your pocket in 5 years after taxes compared to deisel owner's. So under this scenario if I had bought a deisel and got 23 mpg on highway. I would have to get $6378.16 more in resale at 5 years to break even vs the V10.
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:39 PM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

WOW THAT IS A LOT OF #s!!!
YOU GUYS MUST TYPE ALOT FASTER THAN I DO.

JOHNSDIESEL---THE MAY/JUNE '03 ISSUE OF TRUCK TREND LISTS A 0-60 TIME FOR A '01 F350 4X4 DUALLIE WITH AUTO TRANS AND V-10 @9.6 I HAVEN'T CHECKED IT BUT I'M SURE MINE IS QUICKER THAN THAT. I DROVE IDENTICAL TRUCKS BACK TO BACK WITH THE 6.0 AND V-10 AND THE V-10 WAS A LITTLE SNAPPIER OFF THE LINE. I WILL SAY I'VE NEVER DRIVEN A DIESEL THAT PERFORMS LIKE THAT NEW 6.0 BUT AS I SAID ABOVE THE V-10 WINS IF ONLY BY A LITTLE. PASSING TESTS AND OTHER MOVING DOWN THE ROAD COMPARISONS MIGHT SHOW FAVOR IN THE OTHER DIRECTION THOUGH. ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT.

I'M NOT GOING TO FLAT OUT DISAGREE WITH YOU BUT WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE REBATE I DON'T THINK I COULD BREAK EVEN @75,000 TAKING INTO ACCOUNT RESALE VALUE.
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:41 PM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

I AM ALSO AVERAGING ABOUT 14.5MPG WITH MY TRUCK RUNNING EMPTY.
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Old 04-17-2003, 10:09 PM
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The two trucks I posted in my earlier post are identical except for engine. The V10 actually had a little lower mileage, but the diesel was worth a little more than $4000 more. All you guys mentioning rebates need to remember that the leftover 7.3's had rebates as well. Also, Ford offers low to 0% financing at times on these trucks so calculating interest on money that you saved by going V10 is a little off. I guess I should calculate interest on a high yield savings account for the money saved on fuel. My Ford Expedition also had a plug for the winter and if I lived in MN I'd plug it in, so same electric usage. See what I mean, these details can make the numbers go the other way as well.

Most of the guys I've heard from get between 12-14 MPG with the V10. A lot of people see far worse than 12-14. Remember, EVERY time you tow or haul the diesel will increase the MPG gap between the gas and diesel.

BTW, the regular duty oil change interval for the 6.0 is 7500 miles.
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Old 04-18-2003, 10:25 AM
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6.0 Powerstoke Vs. 6.8 Triton

Johnsdeisel,


"All you guys mentioning rebates need to remember that the leftover 7.3's had rebates as well. Also, Ford offers low to 0% financing at times on these trucks so calculating interest on money that you saved by going V10 is a little off."

Despite record rebates and incentives across the auto industry, Ford has not and does not currently offer any rebate or interest rate incentive on the 6.0L PSD

"I guess I should calculate interest on a high yield savings account for the money saved on fuel."

I took fuel savings for the deisel into account by deducting from the V10 owner's monthly input to savings. The same amount of money is leaving both the V10 and deisel owner's hands per month.

"My Ford Expedition also had a plug for the winter and if I lived in MN I'd plug it in, so same electric usage. See what I mean, these details can make the numbers go the other way as well."

If you want to plug in a gas engine I'm certainly not going to stop you. I have never plugged in a Ford gas vehicle unless it is colder than -30 F. However, Ford recommends the EBH for temp -10 F or colder for the V10, so I included 2 days/month for the V10


"Most of the guys I've heard from get between 12-14 MPG with the V10. A lot of people see far worse than 12-14. Remember, EVERY time you tow or haul the diesel will increase the MPG gap between the gas and diesel."

I do not doubt your V10 mileage figures at all; however, I thought giving the PSD 23 mpg on winter blend deisel in MN would be generous enough to squelch this arguement.

"BTW, the regular duty oil change interval for the 6.0 is 7500 miles."

What is the severe service interval for the 6.0?

Actually I was pretty generous to the 6.0 L (in fact I really want one). I cited invoice prices, allowed 23 mpg, and 36,000 miles/year. I included a measly 3% taxable account for the V10 owner. Most people have a much higher interest rate loan such as a mortage or student loan. Around here for the difference in fuel prices to be only 5% I would have to drive several miles out of the way for each tank of deisel. Also I did not even touch insurance premiums which are likely to be higher for the more expensive turbo deisel.

Last edited by FlywayF250; 04-18-2003 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 04-18-2003, 10:25 AM
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