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6.7L Power Stroke Diesel 2011-2015 Ford Powerstroke 6.7 L turbo diesel engine

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  #46  
Old 09-27-2011, 07:27 PM
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5 gal. bucket of Stanadyne

I purchased a 5 gal. bucket of Stanadyne Performance formula at Bomgaar's over the weekend. It's regularly priced at about $180 but had a 15% sale so got it for $153.
From the reading I did over the weekend, I decided to go with a demulsifier, which works with the water separator. I'm more comfortable with a demulsifier than something which "suspends" the water in fuel, that's just scary to me.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:09 PM
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Good to know, thanks for that. Which stanadyne formula do you use?
performance
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:53 PM
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The power services stuff is A-1 horse crap. It is an emulsifier which coats the water in diesel and let's it through your water separator and into the motor....... Which is bad.
Are you sure? Someone recently sent me this, it's a couple years old though:

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Diesel Fuel Supplement (DFS) has an antigen which prevents the fuel from gelling. It also has a detergent, cetane boost, lubricity, anti-icing, and corrosion package.

Warm fuel will carry more water than cold fuel. When it gets cold some water can fall out of the fuel, or the water separator can squeeze out water which can freeze on the filter face and cause the fuel to stop flowing through the filter even though the fuel is still liquid. This is call Fuel Filter Icing and is often mistaken for fuel gelling. Our Diesel Fuel Supplement contains a deicer that is intended to keep the water in the fuel from falling out. The deicer can also help to solubilize small amounts of water in the fuel system. If too much water is in the fuel tank it can overpower the deicer in the Diesel Fuel Supplement.

Cetane will cause the fuel to ignite a split second sooner than fuel with low cetane. This will cause the engine to start faster and help the fuel to burn more completely and aid in fuel economy, reduce emissions and noise.

The detergent in DFS will help to keep the injectors clean which is the key to better fuel economy. The EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association) recommends the use of a detergent. Their research shows that low sulfur fuels have a tendency to form carbon deposits on fuel injectors. The DFS will prevent these deposits from forming. These deposits interfere with the fuel injector spray pattern, cause the engine to smoke, emit more emissions and reduce fuel economy.

Lubricity will help the fuel pump to last longer. The vast majority of fuel pumps in diesel engines are lubricated by the fuel and in the USA one-third of the fuels do not meet the minimum lubricity requirements. The DFS has enough lubricity to raise these fuels up to the minimum standard recommended by the fuel pump manufacturers. The fuel pump manufacturers BOSCH, Delphi, Denso, Siemens and Stanadyne say that lubricity is the most valuable and crucial property of diesel fuel.

Our Diesel Kleen is a summer additive and it is intended to give you the very best injector cleaner, cetane, lubricity, fuel stability package and corrosion protection. It will not do much for water and it is not intended to. The injector cleaner is strong enough to clean up a dirty injectors to the spray pattern of a new injector. The Cetane Boost will help your engine start quicker, reduce emissions (even NOx) and improve engine performance. The lubricity package will bring the lubricity of the fuel up to the standard recommended by the fuel pump manufacturers. It meets the N14 Standard for corrosion and it will stabilize the fuel. The stability package helps the fuel to resist thermal breakdown which can cause the fuel to darken and form particulate materials which create gum residues in the fuel system.

Diesel Kleen is the only additive on the market that has effectively demonstrated the ability to reduce NOx (Nitrogen Oxides) which are the fine particles & ground level ozone often called Urban Smog. It will also reduce the other diesel emissions like black smoke, PM, CO, and HC. It also has the strongest detergent package on the market.

When it comes to water dispersal the following will apply.

A Demulsifier, an emulsifier and a water solubilizer are all water dispersants. All diesel fuel has water in it. The water that is in diesel fuel will not hurt or harm the motor, pumps or injectors. Low Sulfur diesel fuel usually has around 50 to 65ppm (parts per million) water in the fuel. When the water content of the fuel gets around 100ppm or higher, the more likely fuel filter icing will occur.

Demulsifiers will cause excess water to fall out of the fuel. This water will fall to the bottom of the fuel tank or fuel system and can cause corrosion, rust, reduced lubricity and in the winter months it can freeze in the fuel lines and prevent fuel flow. There are about a dozen demulsifiers or de-hazers on the market. None of them will work on all fuels. You have to test the fuel your are using against the various demulsifiers to see which one will work with that fuel. They are fuel specific and when an additive company says they use demulsifiers in their additives it is for advertisement purposes only. If you talk to any Chemist that knows anything about demulsifiers they will tell you the same thing.
An emulsifier will pull water up into the fuel as small droplets and often will cause the fuel to be cloudy. In the winter months when the temperature drops below freezing, these water droplets can freeze on the filter face of the water separator causing the flow of fuel to stop, even though the fuel is still liquid. It does not take much water to cause Fuel Filter Icing problems. Both Ford and Chevy have advised against the use of emulsifiers because of possible engine damage caused by water droplets in the fuel. These water droplets also reduce the lubricity of the fuel and hurt fuel pumps and can pit, scare and destroy injector tips, according to Ford and Chevy.

Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement do not contain demulsifiers, emulsifiers or alcohols.

Our Diesel 911 is a solubilizer. It will take free water and combine it with the fuel so when you look at the fuel it is clear. Diesel 911 will combine with the fuel first and it will also keep the water in the fuel from falling out. It then will act upon the free water in the system. If the fuel is dry and is not saturated with water, it will pick up more free water than when the fuel is wet. A fuel solubilizer will not suspend water in the fuel as water droplets and it is not an emulsifier.

There is a lot of misinformation about additives and water dispersants. When you use an additive like our Diesel Fuel Supplement or Diesel Kleen these are mixtures of additives in a package. These various chemicals have to be balanced so they will not separate when you mix them together. It doesn't matter if you use our additives or one of our competitors, a good water dispersant takes a lot of room in the additive package. If you add a strong detergent, strong cetane, excellent lubricity, corrosion, top of the line antigel, and stability to the additive package there is not much room left for a water dispersant. A good multiple benefit package will always have a weak water dispersant package. It is a matter of chemistry. The only way to get a strong water dispersant is to get an additive whose top attribute is to control water like our Diesel 911. It takes a lot of water dispersant to take care of free water so it will take up a lot of room in a container.

If you think you have a water or water related problem then you need to use our Diesel 911 to take care of the water. Diesel 911 is completely compatible with Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement and they can be used together in the fuel. If you live in areas where the temperatures can be severe in the winter months then you need to use our Diesel Fuel Supplement. Use the Diesel Kleen in the non-winter months. Also, just before winter sets in I would use the Diesel 911 to help take out the water/condensation in your fuel system. You might also use it once a month in the equipment during the winter just to be sure condensation doesn't build up in the system. One-third of all fuel flow problems in winter is caused by water. Diesel 911 is the perfect product to take care of this problem. It will solubilize the water back into the fuel so the water will act as a component of the fuel. The water will be in solution and not in droplet form in your fuel. All fuel contains water. When used as directed it will prevent fuel filter icing problems, it will not hurt or harm your pump or injectors and it is the only practical way to rid the system of water in a vehicle . Again, use the Diesel 911 when you think you have a water problem .

Diesel 911 does not contain any methyl or ethyl alcohols. It is a proprietary mixture containing Hydroxyl Compounds. These de-icers are used in many diesel fuel additives that are currently on the market.

It is also interesting to note that Power Service Products, Inc. is one of the few diesel fuel manufacturers that have their own chemical storage tanks, own lab and one of the most modern and automated production lines in the industry. We buy our chemicals by the truck load, tanker load and sometimes by a million gallons at a time. We control our costs in this way which keeps us cost competitive and we also do not experience shortages which would stop production in the critical winter months. Our chemist in our own lab come up with our formulations and test them for performance and quality. We mix our own chemicals at our tank farm and then send them to our warehouse for bottling, box the product and store it for shipping. Most of our competitors use what we call "cold blenders". That is they come up with a formulation and then send it off to a blending facility who purchase the chemicals and mix them to the required specifications, bottle and box and label the product and then ship it back to the owner who warehouse it until it is sold. This causes their prices to be usually higher than ours. Often since they have higher costs due to the cold blend process they put out an inferior product and say it is equal to or better than ours.
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  #49  
Old 09-27-2011, 09:58 PM
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I just emailed Power Service asking if they use emulsifiers and how their product will affect water and fuel/water separators. I also asked about the correlation to fuel additives and corrosion in high pressure fuel pumps.

I will post their reply when I get it.
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:04 PM
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Tom,

I'll be interested to read what you find out. I've used the Power Service white and grey for 8 years. Seven years in the 6.0 and since Feb in the new 6.7. The only time the 6.0 had a fuel problem was when one injector failed. Unfortunately it caused all the injectors on that bank to act up. Ended up having to replace all four of those injectors. Never had any other issues and traded the truck in Feb for the 6.7.

I did enought testing with PS in the 6.0 to think it more than paid for the price in increased mpg. I did not testing with the 6.7 and either the white bottle or grey has been in every gallon since made.

I am not against changing my fuel additive if there is a better choice. I don't know anything about any of the other brands. I'll be anxious to see what you all have to say about what additive you are using. My thoughts are the PS lubrication ingredient may be helpful for the fuel injection components, but I have no proof.
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  #51  
Old 09-27-2011, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jim48 View Post
Tom,

I'll be interested to read what you find out. I've used the Power Service white and grey for 8 years. Seven years in the 6.0 and since Feb in the new 6.7. The only time the 6.0 had a fuel problem was when one injector failed. Unfortunately it caused all the injectors on that bank to act up. Ended up having to replace all four of those injectors. Never had any other issues and traded the truck in Feb for the 6.7.

I did enought testing with PS in the 6.0 to think it more than paid for the price in increased mpg. I did not testing with the 6.7 and either the white bottle or grey has been in every gallon since made.

I am not against changing my fuel additive if there is a better choice. I don't know anything about any of the other brands. I'll be anxious to see what you all have to say about what additive you are using. My thoughts are the PS lubrication ingredient may be helpful for the fuel injection components, but I have no proof.
I hear you, Jim! My experience has been identical to yours, I used it on every tank on my 6.4L and nearly every tank on my 6.7L truck. I believe this is among the best in the industry, but unfortunately good technical data is hard to find.

I can't defend them without some kind of data, our experience is purely anecdotal at best. I'm hoping for a positive result from them tomorrow!
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
I just emailed Power Service asking if they use emulsifiers and how their product will affect water and fuel/water separators. I also asked about the correlation to fuel additives and corrosion in high pressure fuel pumps.

I will post their reply when I get it.

I would also like to see data from the manufacture of Motorcraft diesel fuel treatment products. I use the PS and MC-22 at different times of the year, but I have never seen any test of how many points of cetane boost take place when using any product. They all say "as much as" 3-6 points.
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  #53  
Old 09-28-2011, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
I hear you, Jim! My experience has been identical to yours, I used it on every tank on my 6.4L and nearly every tank on my 6.7L truck. I believe this is among the best in the industry, but unfortunately good technical data is hard to find.

I can't defend them without some kind of data, our experience is purely anecdotal at best. I'm hoping for a positive result from them tomorrow!
Here is some data.

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:47 AM
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Now that was a great study. The fact it is over 5 years old makes me wonder about current applicability. If this could only be redone using today's products it would be outstanding.
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Old 09-28-2011, 06:46 AM
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Good Morning, Happy Hump Day.......Great info here guys
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:45 AM
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Thanks, Alex!

I've read this one a few times before, and like dbc I would like to see something more recent. It also doesn't address the main concern many of us have with how these additives react with water.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
I can't defend them without some kind of data, our experience is purely anecdotal at best. I'm hoping for a positive result from them tomorrow!
Tom . . . . have you heard anything yet? I use the Ford PM22 and wonder if I need to use anothe additive for water separation. What additive is good for water separation? Or do we really need one?

thanks ken
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:23 AM
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Just thinking out loud but I wonder how much it costs to have this testing done. Seems the other site was able to get it done reasonably. I for one would be willing to chip in some $'s to get this kind of valuable information. Heck if we were to bring the top say 5 diesel focused sites together it shouldn't be all that bad in costs. Hmmmmmmmmm ........
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:51 AM
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Hi Tom,

Yeah I read the older posts concerning the additives. I also was looking for something a little newer. I thought I read somehere that PS is the actual manufacturer of Motorcraft brand fuel additives or at least some of them. I can't find that now. Maybe I had a brain f*** not sure. Anyhow, one of our members will come up with the info we all need to read. We are blessed with some really GREAT people here!! i Appreciate all of you. Praying for a good outcome for Rick also. He has been thru hell. The wife says she may still make an appointment for my commital soon.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:11 AM
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Hey guys,

Got a phone call from Power Service this morning on my way to work and had a great 10-minute conversation with one of their technical customer service folks. He was very knowledgeable and honest with me. I asked him to summarize our conversation so I could post it on here.

When I get back to a regular computer I will post the results of our conversation. I believed before that they were the best I'm the industry; now I am convinced.
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