the tool you describe may be for us folks without long A$$ fingers. The manual makes everything sound very matter of fact. First do this, then this. Remove sparkplug wires and remove camshaft sprocket are the same. it does not mention a tool like the one you describe, but it does include replacing the tappets in this list of work to be done while the engine is still in the truck. I am sure it would be easier to replace the tappets while the block is upside down on the bench, but getting it there is a lot of work.

 

Certainly diagnose the problem first. Look for non rotating lifters, unequal valve spring compression, and use a dial gauge at the retainer.

Whatever, lash shouldnt be out of whack within a few weeks, especially with new rocker gear. That fact makes a person start looking real close at the lifters/cam, bent pushrods.

Poor picture.

 

I am trying to figure out what is wrong before I just start tearing things apart, but this is sort of a stumper. I want to be pretty sure the camshaft and the lifters are the problem before I take on that project.

This weekend I will pull the valve covers and start by checking the lash with out adjusting anything. The last few times I have made the adjustments, I just assumed it was all out of wack and I adjusted all of the valves. this time I want to see if the front 4 are off while the others are ok. Also I had noticed that the pushrod turned while is was turning the engine over with the remote starter switch, but I did not know that the turning was an important and necessary action. I thought it was interesting, but I didn't know that failure to turn was a sign of engine illness.

The push rods are straight. I have had them all out and they are not damaged. That is they look straight to me. I wasn't testing them to the nearest thousandth, but they look straight.

I don't have a dial indicator. Looks like they range in price from $17 to $180 or so. you said use a dial gauge at the retainer. What is the retainer?

by the way I think that is a nice photo. my engine is very dirty and work a day by comparison.

 

The solid lifters are not flat on their bottoms, and the crown of the cam lobe also has a slight curvature. This results in the lifters going in circles as the engine is operated, and that action is followed by the push rods also turning. When a cam or lifter looses their curvature and flatten, then no rotating action takes place and they wear relatively rapidly. If the face of a properly working lifter is looked at outside the engine, it will have a circle shaped wear pattern. A worn out lifter will have a wear pattern roughly rectangular, due to no rotation, and it will be flat or even concave.

A dial gauge plus magnetic base should cost somewhere around $40 for the chinese version. Hate to say it but that is what I have, picked up off ebay. They come in handy sometimes.

The valve spring retainer is also referred to as collar. It is a little hassle but a base and dial should be able to be fixed to the top of the head. The dial would go onto the collar, somewhere close to the rocker end. But before spending money, check for pushrod rotation, and visually look at relative spring compression like Charlie said.

The above is a pretty rough explanation. Someone else may be able to do better.

 

I still have to wonder why no one is going to check lobe lift at the pushrod?

All you need to aproximate this is a steel flex rule or dial indicator A stock cam for 1964 shows a lift of .360 which is about 11/32".

The steel rule I describe is available at most hardware stores for about $3. Check your pushrods with a straight edge. This can be any decent ruler or a sheet of glass and your feeler gauges.
A dial indicator is nice and easy to use but is usualy a tool used by pro mechanics and machinists.

BTW- I have seen engines where the pushrods do not rotate and run fine. Though I will agree they wear quite quickly.

 

Thanks Mike,
that is a good explanation. I get it now. so if the pushrods aren't turning I have to plan on replacing the camshaft and tappets. the Y block has solid lifters as original equipment, are there hydraulic lifters for this engine? Would they be better?

I get the retainer thing also. I just wasn't sure what we were retaining. Once you said "valve spring retainer" I got it. I guess I also got thrown off by the photo which did not have valves, springs or retainers in the head.

btw why do you have the head bolted to the block without the valves in place? Just wondering?

Thanks for your help.

Bill

 

Flipklos you are younger than I am, and have a lot better eyesight .

 

Thanks Mike,
that is a good explanation. I get it now. so if the pushrods aren't turning I have to plan on replacing the camshaft and tappets. the Y block has solid lifters as original equipment, are there hydraulic lifters for this engine? Would they be better?

I get the retainer thing also. I just wasn't sure what we were retaining. Once you said "valve spring retainer" I got it. I guess I also got thrown off by the photo which did not have valves, springs or retainers in the head.

btw why do you have the head bolted to the block without the valves in place? Just wondering?

Thanks for your help.

If only one pushrod isnt turning then it could be a burr or worn pushrod. If 2, 3 or 4 arent going round, then...

Hydraulic lifters are not possible on this line of engines. Impossible.

Like I said it was a poor photo. I was checking a cam shaft's opening and closing points using number one cylinder, and a degree wheel which is out of photo. A cut off rocker shaft is bolted in place out of view, with one valve assembled. I just threw in an old crank, timining set, new cam and the two valves for the measurements. Didnt even have pistons in place. For the discussion here the pic should have been from the other side.

 

I will try that! 11/32" is easy to see, but how much will it be off of that for there to be a problem? If it is worn I guess it would be less than the spec.

My trusty shop manual lists the camshaft lobe lift as:
intake 0.264, exhaust 0.262.
I guess I could start by checking to see if they all match.

Thanks.

Bill

 

If one or two are obviously not opening as far as the others then I would say you have a problem.

 

Your rocker arms are 1.43:1 ratio. So lobe lift times 1.43 for lift at the valve.

 

Referring once again to my F-100 Bible the "MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE LOBE LIFT LOSS" for both intake and exhaust is 0.005 That I cannot measure with a straight edge.

 

Within a 32nd of an inch should not cause any harm or major driveability issues. Though it would cause a reduction in economy and power it would be a modest one at worst. Much more than that and you would be in tune for a cam and lifters. That is my opinion. I have a fair amount of experience dealing with things like this though I am by no means a Y block expert.

I just think that this is a much cheeper and quicker way for you to determine the condition of your cam lobes as all you need is wrenches and a rule. It will tell you what you need to do without buying a dial indicator. If you plan on working on this engine and your truck in its entierety a dial indicator is an excelent tool allowing you to test all sorts of bearing clearences, lashes, lifts, and end plays. If you plan on farming out the work I would not buy one.

Bill, I own two dial indicators. One at home and one at work and they are MUCH, MUCH easier than a rule! I just think for determining the lobes aproximate lift a $3 rule is a better investment. I once sat ignition timing on a tecumseh with a dial caliper! The dang mag base would not stick to an aluminum block.

There are tons of tools a guy needs to do this stuff properly. I guestamated once that in hand tools alone I have about $4000 at home. Work is probobly about $3000. Heck, at work I got about $600 worth of pipe wrenches alone.

I am ranting,

One way or another determine your lobe lift. Go from there wfon.

 

I already own a whole collection of steel rules, and I have a dial caliper I use for woodwork, so I guess i could jury rig something. If I need a new camshaft, I will certainly buy $40 dial indicator. I don't know what a camshaft replacement job would cost at my local mechanic, but I know I can't afford it. A camshaft cost about $70, timing chain $25, tappets about $7.50 each. Any special tools I might need would be positively cheap compared to $150/hour for at least a full day.

I see it as a stretch and a learning experience. Every time I fix something on my truck I come to love it a little bit more. It becomes more MY truck. I thought the Rocker Arm Assemblies were a big deal before I replaced them. But if I hadn't done that, this would seem impossible.

thanks, Bill

 

Bill, hopefully everything will check out and the cam not need replacing. But if it does, GOOD lifters new run about $200 a set. That is a lot of money. Tim McMaster is a respected Y-block engine builder in San Francisco area. He will ONLY use reground lifters done by Oregon Cam Grinder. I sent them a set of stock used lifters and had them reground for my 312/322 which is in the works. I think they cost $40. Plus small flat rate box shipping two ways for a total of $50.

There are new lifters on ebay most always, which run around $100 for a set. They have proven to be bad news, with early failures.