Ok I'm stumped?
#1
08-23-2011, 10:48 PM
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Location: Maysville, Kentucky
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Ok I'm stumped?
OK guy my truck is about ready to become part of a bonfire 
.
I put in ad's , a 17* , and front cover off a motor I bought used. Truck starts and runs like a scalled dog cold. Once it gets to operating temp it seems to lose a little top end from 3/4 pedal to wot. When at full temp it will sometimes die coming to a stop at a light it is very hard to restart and seem like it will try to hit. Did it twice and would not restart. ( Please don't shoot me but I had to give it a small shot of brake part cleaner for it to hit. Was in the middle of the road in traffic). It is also hard to start hot if you shut it off. No matter if its 5 seconds or 15 min. Pulled codes and got some expected codes due to unpluging some sensors. Got a CPS intermittent code which I think is due to the long cranks? Everything else seemed to be odd codes but nothing seemed realted. Clear them and will see what returns.
The scanner I'm using is the torque app on an android phone with a bluetooth adapter. (Still testing but seems to work ok on my truck will post results in a different thread after some more testing) But I got it to pull codes and some datastream. It is a little glitchy but seems to read close to the snap on I used the other day. The numbers seem to be spot on the Snap on at idle and wot but the glitch doesnt give a good flow of data through the rpm range.
DC 14% at idle 710 icp
DC 53 to 60% wot 2400 icp
Anyway it will surge slightly at idle but still has bottom end power. When it does die the rpm will drop below 400 and lose all pedal response then die.
Here is what I've done in order.
Checked oil. (400 miles since changed)
Oil PSI on analog gauge ( 70 cruising 32 at idle)
Swapped IPR from 15* pump ( no change)
Replaced IPR orings ( no change)
Unplugged ICP ( same)
New IPR ( same)
Changed the IPR plug in the harness. (nothing)
My only other thing I can think of is HPOP problem. I think Im going to switch back in my 15* and see what happens. Will loose power but everything else should be normal.
Any other ideas or things to check.
I havent checked if the hpop full when it dies because usually in the road.
Thanks guys
.I put in ad's , a 17* , and front cover off a motor I bought used. Truck starts and runs like a scalled dog cold. Once it gets to operating temp it seems to lose a little top end from 3/4 pedal to wot. When at full temp it will sometimes die coming to a stop at a light it is very hard to restart and seem like it will try to hit. Did it twice and would not restart. ( Please don't shoot me but I had to give it a small shot of brake part cleaner for it to hit. Was in the middle of the road in traffic). It is also hard to start hot if you shut it off. No matter if its 5 seconds or 15 min. Pulled codes and got some expected codes due to unpluging some sensors. Got a CPS intermittent code which I think is due to the long cranks? Everything else seemed to be odd codes but nothing seemed realted. Clear them and will see what returns.
The scanner I'm using is the torque app on an android phone with a bluetooth adapter. (Still testing but seems to work ok on my truck will post results in a different thread after some more testing) But I got it to pull codes and some datastream. It is a little glitchy but seems to read close to the snap on I used the other day. The numbers seem to be spot on the Snap on at idle and wot but the glitch doesnt give a good flow of data through the rpm range.
DC 14% at idle 710 icp
DC 53 to 60% wot 2400 icp
Anyway it will surge slightly at idle but still has bottom end power. When it does die the rpm will drop below 400 and lose all pedal response then die.
Here is what I've done in order.
Checked oil. (400 miles since changed)
Oil PSI on analog gauge ( 70 cruising 32 at idle)
Swapped IPR from 15* pump ( no change)
Replaced IPR orings ( no change)
Unplugged ICP ( same)
New IPR ( same)
Changed the IPR plug in the harness. (nothing)
My only other thing I can think of is HPOP problem. I think Im going to switch back in my 15* and see what happens. Will loose power but everything else should be normal.
Any other ideas or things to check.
I havent checked if the hpop full when it dies because usually in the road.Thanks guys
#5
08-24-2011, 08:30 AM
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08-24-2011, 12:24 PM
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#12
08-24-2011, 06:40 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Maysville, Kentucky
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#14
08-24-2011, 07:22 PM
This is from Dave at swamps :
Though it could be the IPR, I don't think it's likely in this case.
I'm betting that you have some injector issues...specifically surrounding the poppet valve on one (or more) injectors.
The poppet valve is the one single area of a PSD injector that just flat out wears. It's similar to a valve in a cylinder head that beats itself into it's valveseat.
As the poppet valve opens and closes (with each injection), it meters the high pressure oil flow in/out of the inj.
With each opening and closing, the seat is being hammered by the valve...causing it (over millions of cycles) to seat lower and lower into the injector...until clearance under the armature is lost.
Once the armature bottoms out on the inj body, the valve cannot "reach" the seat to seal high pressure oil from leaking out of the injector.
The reason that the truck runs when cold, and dies (and won't restart until it has cooled significantly) is that cold oil is thick...and can bridge the gap created by a poor valve & seat seal.
once the oil is warm, it thins out, and can now leak around that valve creating a tremendous amount of "spillage" that the oil pump can not now keep up with...once the amount of the leak exceeds the capacity of the pump...pressure falls, and the injectors simply cannot fire without (approx) 450psi of high pressure oil...so the truck dies.
you can physically measure this yourself.
Pull both valvecovers, and start the truck...it won't be horribly messy, just a little oil splash around the valvetrain.
As the truck (oil) heats up and dies, have someone crank on the starter attempting to restart the truck.
You should be able to look at each injector, and find one that it puking oil out from around the (just above) the hold down clamp.
You may need to mop up any oil that settles down in the low spot of the head to help you see which injector is actually puking...
once you've isolated which inj(s) are puking, pull the solenoid (4 # torx 15 screws), remove the harness to that inj, remove the little aluminum spacer plate...
what you are now looking at is the armature plate...the little ~1"x1" square plate, with the goofy screw (poppet screw) going through it's center.
On a brand new injector, there should typically be .003"-.004" (three to four thousanths of an inch) gap under that armature (measured with a feeler gauge)...
My bet is that your injectors have enough poppet seat wear that they have less than .0015 (less than one and one half thou of an inch) gap...practically zero.
if you can't get a .0015" feeler under the armature plate, then that injector is a problem, and it is a good indication that the others within that set need some machining to bring them back into spec. so that they will operate correctly.
I'm betting that you have some injector issues...specifically surrounding the poppet valve on one (or more) injectors.
The poppet valve is the one single area of a PSD injector that just flat out wears. It's similar to a valve in a cylinder head that beats itself into it's valveseat.
As the poppet valve opens and closes (with each injection), it meters the high pressure oil flow in/out of the inj.
With each opening and closing, the seat is being hammered by the valve...causing it (over millions of cycles) to seat lower and lower into the injector...until clearance under the armature is lost.
Once the armature bottoms out on the inj body, the valve cannot "reach" the seat to seal high pressure oil from leaking out of the injector.
The reason that the truck runs when cold, and dies (and won't restart until it has cooled significantly) is that cold oil is thick...and can bridge the gap created by a poor valve & seat seal.
once the oil is warm, it thins out, and can now leak around that valve creating a tremendous amount of "spillage" that the oil pump can not now keep up with...once the amount of the leak exceeds the capacity of the pump...pressure falls, and the injectors simply cannot fire without (approx) 450psi of high pressure oil...so the truck dies.
you can physically measure this yourself.
Pull both valvecovers, and start the truck...it won't be horribly messy, just a little oil splash around the valvetrain.
As the truck (oil) heats up and dies, have someone crank on the starter attempting to restart the truck.
You should be able to look at each injector, and find one that it puking oil out from around the (just above) the hold down clamp.
You may need to mop up any oil that settles down in the low spot of the head to help you see which injector is actually puking...
once you've isolated which inj(s) are puking, pull the solenoid (4 # torx 15 screws), remove the harness to that inj, remove the little aluminum spacer plate...
what you are now looking at is the armature plate...the little ~1"x1" square plate, with the goofy screw (poppet screw) going through it's center.
On a brand new injector, there should typically be .003"-.004" (three to four thousanths of an inch) gap under that armature (measured with a feeler gauge)...
My bet is that your injectors have enough poppet seat wear that they have less than .0015 (less than one and one half thou of an inch) gap...practically zero.
if you can't get a .0015" feeler under the armature plate, then that injector is a problem, and it is a good indication that the others within that set need some machining to bring them back into spec. so that they will operate correctly.
