I'm trying to decide between these two tuners (being used with cat and DPF delete pipes)

Price is within a couple hundred bucks. The rep I spoke with at H&S wasn't terribly knowledgeable, but I called an H&S dealer and got much better answers. Spartan was very easy to reach and knowledgeable as well.

Differences I can find: On-the-fly tuning with H&S (which seems relatively worthless), Spartan has a larger/better display, Spartan has 14 tunes where H&S has 4 (I'm guessing half of them don't apply depending on DPF and cat presence)

Seems like both are good products. Does anyone have experience with both - or have a reason to go with one over the other?

I'm installing this on an '08 F-450 used primarily for towing. Mileage and reliability are my primary concerns - I don't need to roast the tires at the track.

 

spartan has tunes for dpf still on, and some for dpf off.
these numbers are rear wheel horsepower add.

40/75/120/150 dpf ON tunes as well (and DPF-Off of each too), stock DPF off as well.

175, 210, 210tow, 250, 275 are all DPF off only

tune on the fly would be nice in a few cases..

the spartan process for installing a new tune wipes out the learned tranny behavior, and has to be relearned every time. takes a couple 100 miles to get it. (and weird behavior can occur during the learn proces)..

I saw a hand calculated 1.5mpg improvement (9 to 10.5) towing 7000lb, with the 250 tune on my 08 350 DRW (4.10 rear).

Most recommend nearer to stock tunes with larger weights.

Sam

 

If all you're gonna do is tow you might want to consider something to program the Regens off and leave the truck stock. Most folks on here say that getting much over stock when you tow heavy gets the EGTs too high. And no one is reporting any substancial mileage increase towing. Since you have a 450 I'm assuming you tow something heavy. There's a product called "DPF delete", I think that's the right name that will do that. I bought a used edge evo which will also do it. It would save you a lot of money. Of course if you were just kidding about not wanting to smoke the tires then keep looking where you are. And of course either way you have to delete the DPF.

 

Shift on the fly is nice if you want to change your tune between running empty and hauling heavy. As mentioned the transmission learning curve can be annoying and certainly deters you from making frequent changes. With that said, I have heard great things about both products so it most likely comes down to personal preference.

 

I have the banks 6-gun. DPF on though. I allows me to run on a ecomony setting when empty or light towing.

when heavy I can just change the setting back down to stock. I can tow in the ecomony setting heavy if I wanted as it is just a few more hp than stock but I find that the tranny temps are a little higher.

 

So I went with the H&S for a couple reasons. 1) I have a friend with the exact same truck doing the exact same job as mine who is 100% satisfied with the Mini Maxx and AFE race pipes, so I know it will do the job. 2) At first I didn't think the time required to change tunes would be an issue, but I can see it being useful to change depending on load, which does vary depending on how many horses or how much equipment I'm hauling unlike a consistent load like a camper. If it takes 5 or 10 minutes that would be a hassle. 3) It sounds like changing tunes with the H&S will not wipe out learned transmission strategy.

Ordered it this morning. Need to get the truck in to the dealer for the 11B23 reflash and check for any applicable TSB's before I pull the DPF and plug in the tuner.

 

yeh, with the Spartan its 15-30 minutes per tune.. most of mine have been in the 20 minute range..

Sam

 

I have H&S because of the shift on the fly. I saw it being a huge hassle having to wait 15+ minutes before switching tunes to be able to pull a load. If you want a bigger display, go with the Black Maxx.

 

I guess I'm the devils advocate on towing heavy and tuned. I run a 210 tow tune all the time, as a DD and for towing a 17K camper. I watch my temps and dont try to run monster hills at 80 mph and as far as I can tell I see no reason to tow with a stock tune. Going through W. Va and Virginia there are some pretty steep hills and my EGTs maxed at about 1250, and at that was only there for a couple mintues at best. Since those temps hit about 1400 during regens and stay that way way longer I didnt worry about it. Going through the White Mountains in NH ther is a 4 mile long 13% grade that had me a bit nervous when I hit it but driving sensibley, and safely, up the winding road yielded no parameters that were out of line.

I dont drive it like a race car and have no need to see how fast I can do 0 - 70 pulling 17K, so I see no issues running the tune. If my temps were getting out of hand or I was running excessively high boost pressures, or using that extra power to really hammer the tranny while loaded, it might be different.

Don't abuse the power and I don't see any issue.

 

I like Spartan a lot and there customer service is top notch!

 

I have to say, speaking with each company was a totally different experience. Spartan answered the phone right away, and the person answering the phone was able to confidently answer all of my questions. It was like I could hear them doing an install in the background.

The person that eventually answered the phone at H&S couldn't answer many questions, like how to spell "H&S". The H&S dealer I spoke with was very knowledgeable and gave me the confidence to buy the H&S product.

 

I posted the results of my 3500 mile trip here.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...bully-dog.html