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Old 08-08-2011, 12:21 PM
Bill Conner Bill Conner is offline
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NEW INJECTOR CUPS LEAKING BADLY

Hi,
I just got finished replacing the injector cups on my 7.3, when I was buying the supplies to do the job I went to get the GREEN LOCKTITE sealant, since the parts store was out of it I asked the salesperson what was the equivilant in the permatex brand and they said that the green permatex was the strongest they made so I got 2 tubes of that and started doing the job, I noticed that the permatex was rather thin but since it said it was the strongest I figured it was good to go, well... now the cups are leaking at least twice the amount of fuel as before.
Can someone tell me how thick the green locktite is or is there a better sealant I can use when I do the whole damn job again!! I believe I got the cups seated correctly because when they bottomed out it felt straight and solid and the injectors were lined up and all the same level. Any help or suggestions to make the job turn out better would be appreciated thanks, Bill
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:30 PM
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Color doesn't mean it's the right stuff. Ford uses Threadlock 620 and that is what I used. The sealant/retaining compound has to be compatible with the coolant being used or it will break down and not seal properly. Plus it needs time to cure before adding coolant.

Click the image to open in full size.

My application of the 620 to a cup.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by PaysonPSD View Post
Color doesn't mean it's the right stuff. Ford uses Threadlock 620 and that is what I used. The sealant/retaining compound has to be compatible with the coolant being used or it will break down and not seal properly. Plus it needs time to cure before adding coolant.

Click the image to open in full size.

My application of the 620 to a cup.

Click the image to open in full size.
Nice Pic !! I agree with your statements and like you said about coolant and sealant You have a E99 what coolant are you running now? I ask because I have a e99 and want to change my cups and sealant so I can get away from the green coolant. That and what or who's tools did you use?
I was wondering Bill what kind of tool did you use to remove and install the cups? Not that the tool is the problem but could be part of problem. I think it is because you used the wrong stuff. Sorry about your bad luck but I am sure you'll get it right this time. "You can do it!"
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BadDogKuzz View Post
Nice Pic !! I agree with your statements and like you said about coolant and sealant You have a E99 what coolant are you running now? I ask because I have a e99 and want to change my cups and sealant so I can get away from the green coolant. That and what or who's tools did you use?
I am running ELC. Everything (except head gaskets) that comes in contact with the coolant has been upgraded via corrective or preventative maintenance.

I got the loaner tools, cups and 620 from Riffraff.

EDIT : Here's my Injector Cup R&R write-up if you haven't seen it. There is a new tool set, when available, that does not require the removal of the rockers and pedestals.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:59 PM
Bill Conner Bill Conner is offline
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Hi guys, The tools I am using are the ones you get from rosewood tools, they are exactly like the ones from whitaker tools ( the large tap + screw puller) and the tool to drive them in. The sealant in the picture is MUCH thicker than the crap I used, When I remover the old cups I could not see any visible cracks in the cups, could the old cups just have been warper or lost any factory sealant that was on there? I am at a loss as to why they were leaking in the first place. I guess I will get 8 new cups, a couple of tubes of 620 and try one more time. Any tips on how to make sure the cups are straight when you put them in, I did put one in crooked the first time and had to re-order another cup and re-install it. wish me luck and I will keep you informed of my good luck this time. Thanks, Bill
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Old 08-09-2011, 03:24 PM
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Overheating can cause them to warp and break the seal. Running low on coolant will lessen the flow of coolant around the cups. They do pass through the coolant passage and for good reason. And, of course, incompatible coolant will breakdown the retainer/sealer compound. Are you the original owner? What type of coolant was in there?

Turning the cup when first pressing it into the bore will help align it.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:55 PM
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What if it's not actually a cup issue?
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PaysonPSD View Post
I am running ELC. Everything (except head gaskets) that comes in contact with the coolant has been upgraded via corrective or preventative maintenance.

I got the loaner tools, cups and 620 from Riffraff.

EDIT : Here's my Injector Cup R&R write-up if you haven't seen it. There is a new tool set, when available, that does not require the removal of the rockers and pedestals.
Very nice write up you did and great photos ! I emailed to myself so when I do my cups I can refer to it. And after seeing photos I do like the tools Clay has better than the Rosewood set up. Thanks
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BadDogKuzz View Post
Very nice write up you did and great photos ! I emailed to myself so when I do my cups I can refer to it. And after seeing photos I do like the tools Clay has better than the Rosewood set up. Thanks
Hope you saw the link for the PDF version of the write-up.

I would like to see a hybrid set of cup tools with the extractor from Clay's set in combination with Whitaker style inserter. Clay's extractor for all the cups and the Whitaker style inserter for 1-5 and 2-6. Clay's inserter works best for 7 & 8 where there is no room for a good hammer swing. Of course I haven't seen the newer insertion tool, but if it was beefy enough to use with a BFH as well as a screw type ram that would be ideal.

As mentioned on the Riffraff site the extractor will pull the cup intact so you can find out if it is damaged. The big tap Whitaker type extractor does take a toll on the cup and could make it difficut to see damage done before extraction if damage is done while extracting.

I am not sure how well an old injector would work as an inserter but would go for it doing a cup R&R if I had an old injector and a spare cup.
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Old 08-09-2011, 09:05 PM
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Very nice write up you did and great photos ! I emailed to myself so when I do my cups I can refer to it. And after seeing photos I do like the tools Clay has better than the Rosewood set up. Thanks
You will love the new tools then because you don't have to remove the rockers
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:31 AM
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You will love the new tools then because you don't have to remove the rockers
I hope to try one out this weekend!
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaysonPSD View Post
I am running ELC. Everything (except head gaskets) that comes in contact with the coolant has been upgraded via corrective or preventative maintenance.

I got the loaner tools, cups and 620 from Riffraff.

EDIT : Here's my Injector Cup R&R write-up if you haven't seen it. There is a new tool set, when available, that does not require the removal of the rockers and pedestals.
Kinda off topic, but do need to replace anything to run the ELC or is it fine with the stock sealant on the cups?
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:09 AM
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If you do not have an Early 99 you do not have to do anything except flush the old out and refill with ELC, only the 99's were not compatible.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:15 AM
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As Alan said ony the E99s have incompatible retainer/sealant compound. ELC will cause the E99 cup retainer/sealant compound to deteriorate. I ran it for about 9K before replacing cups and believe that is why some of the cups came out without a metallic sounding snap. That snap is the sound that would be made when the compound finally breaks loose and the cup releases. The retaining compound had begun to deteriorate. Another E99 owner pressurized the cooling system before installing new injectors to find coolant was oozing past the top of at least three cups. He had also been running ELC for several thousand miles. He also said that 5 of the cups came out without a snap.

I also got a leak in the oil cooler causing oil and coolant to mix. The o-rings were still pliable but one torn while I was pulling one of the ends off. Maybe it was the ELC, but can't be sure.

I have replaced the WP and thermostat so those gaskets and o-rings have been replaced. As I said earlier the only things I haven't upgraded are the head gaskets and I'm no going to unless I have a problem.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:35 PM
Bill Conner Bill Conner is offline
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Hi again, thanks for all of the great info on the cup replacement, I am kinda new with these diesel monsters I am a big block mustang guy that does not understand some of the terms used in these emails, could you explain what type of coolant "ELC" is and what you mean by an"e99" I dont want to make any more mistakes because I didn't understand something. Thanks Again....Bill
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:35 PM
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