F350 Won't start after ran out of fuel
#1
05-01-2018, 04:10 PM
F350 Won't start after ran out of fuel
Hello all and thanks in advance. Here's the good, the bad and the ugly. I was looking for a heavy duty truck and ran into a great deal.
One owner F350 dually, 7.5L looks hardly used, has some body rust but just normal stuff, 120k miles and 6 new tires, so I bought it!
Made a couple of stops on my way home and the truck would need an extra couple of tries to start. Fuel gauge read full on both tanks and drove it home at 60 mph. Parked it overnight.
Next morning fired it up after a few tries and I drove it to the store. At some point I switched the tank selector switch to the "full" tank (I think it was the rear tank not sure). I then left the store drove a few blocks and would not restart.
What I didn't know at the time was that the "full" fuel gauge reading was incorrect. I had it towed home added 7 gallons of gas and over the next few days proceeded to install new:
Ignition control module
Cap and rotor
Throttle position sensor
Fuel pump relay
EEC power relay
and fuel filter.
I can only get fuel to the schrader valve by using a jump wire at the VIP test connector and I have not pressure tested it but the fuel only pours out does not have high pressure.
The fuel selector valve, inertia switch and fuel pump relay all have power.
Any recommend next steps would be greatly appreciated.
One owner F350 dually, 7.5L looks hardly used, has some body rust but just normal stuff, 120k miles and 6 new tires, so I bought it!
Made a couple of stops on my way home and the truck would need an extra couple of tries to start. Fuel gauge read full on both tanks and drove it home at 60 mph. Parked it overnight.
Next morning fired it up after a few tries and I drove it to the store. At some point I switched the tank selector switch to the "full" tank (I think it was the rear tank not sure). I then left the store drove a few blocks and would not restart.
What I didn't know at the time was that the "full" fuel gauge reading was incorrect. I had it towed home added 7 gallons of gas and over the next few days proceeded to install new:
Ignition control module
Cap and rotor
Throttle position sensor
Fuel pump relay
EEC power relay
and fuel filter.
I can only get fuel to the schrader valve by using a jump wire at the VIP test connector and I have not pressure tested it but the fuel only pours out does not have high pressure.
The fuel selector valve, inertia switch and fuel pump relay all have power.
Any recommend next steps would be greatly appreciated.
#3
05-01-2018, 06:35 PM
Ford dealer trade-in, and I purchased as-is but I will ask. Great idea and thanks!
By the way the truck is a 1988 F350 7.5L EFI.
i can hear the high capacity pump is and I tested the selector switch and it is working as well.
Only Ford I ever had before was a 1976 Ford Granada with 3 on the tree!
I really need to get this truck on the road. Any ideas or technical advice are greatly appreciated!
By the way the truck is a 1988 F350 7.5L EFI.
i can hear the high capacity pump is and I tested the selector switch and it is working as well.
Only Ford I ever had before was a 1976 Ford Granada with 3 on the tree!
I really need to get this truck on the road. Any ideas or technical advice are greatly appreciated!
#4
05-02-2018, 05:31 PM
Amount of gas pumped out of high capacity pump in 1:24sec
Update, today I disconnected the blue fuel supply line leading to the fuel filter. I turned the key to the on position with the fuel pump test wire connected and the pump worked. It pumped out less fuel than I expected (read somewhere it's supposed to pump 43 gph) see picture.
I reconnected fuel line. turned switch to on position to build pressure for 20 secs, and pushed in schrader valve and gas really shot out!
i cranked it up and it started like perfection, once again. I revved the engine and let it sit running for 5 minutes. Soooo smooth for a big block, very nice exhaust sound also... Restarted, all good.
Turned off for 5 minutes and wouldn't hardly crank. I retested for fuel at high capacity pump and pump is working but nothing is coming out.
So I have a couple of issues.
1) no power to fuel pumps unless connected by test wire..what is the problem?
2) should I replace high capacity pump
(or)
the reservoir 6 port valve
(or)
BOTH my fuel oumps
(or)
????
BTW thanks to everyone who has posted all this great info. on the site! I've read all the posts related to this condition and I just need a little bit of advice here. I'll perform the test tomorrow if someone can lead me in the next step.
Can't wait to get this 88 on the road! This is a cool track!
Thanks all!
#5
05-02-2018, 07:42 PM
"Turned off for 5 minutes and wouldn't hardly crank" ... you will need to clarify this.
if by this you mean that the starter is hardly cranking the engine then you have an issue with the starter or the battery or the cables connecting them.
if you meant to say that the engine wont hardly run, that is another matter.
if by this you mean that the starter is hardly cranking the engine then you have an issue with the starter or the battery or the cables connecting them.
if you meant to say that the engine wont hardly run, that is another matter.
#6
05-02-2018, 08:33 PM
Ok, to be clear what I meant was without fuel at the rail it wasn't cranking over. With fuel pressure at the rail this truck cranks right up.
So listed below are the main questions I have:
1) no power to fuel pumps unless connected by test wire..what is the problem?
2) should I replace high capacity pump
(or)
the reservoir 6 port valve
(or)
BOTH my fuel pumps
or
??!!!
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
So listed below are the main questions I have:
1) no power to fuel pumps unless connected by test wire..what is the problem?
2) should I replace high capacity pump
(or)
the reservoir 6 port valve
(or)
BOTH my fuel pumps
or
??!!!
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
#7
05-02-2018, 11:12 PM
Your use of the term "cranks" doesn't match mine. When I turn the ignition key to "start" position I expect to hear the engine turning over and then start to run. That's "cranking". "Cranking" comes between key-off and engine running.
To work on these trucks requires knowing how they work. When you turn the key from OFF to ON should cause the selected fuel tank pump to run for about two seconds to build fuel pressure at the engine. That pressure can measured at the top of the engine, at the valve on the rail. Use a gauge. Should be about 40 lbs ? Turn the key off, watch the pressure, should stay at that point for a long time. But if there's no pressure, there's no point in trying to actually start the motor.
These truck had a peculiar fuel system for the two tanks. The pumps were prone to fail after 100,000 miles or isso, as was the 6-port fuel reservoir.
Does this help?
To work on these trucks requires knowing how they work. When you turn the key from OFF to ON should cause the selected fuel tank pump to run for about two seconds to build fuel pressure at the engine. That pressure can measured at the top of the engine, at the valve on the rail. Use a gauge. Should be about 40 lbs ? Turn the key off, watch the pressure, should stay at that point for a long time. But if there's no pressure, there's no point in trying to actually start the motor.
These truck had a peculiar fuel system for the two tanks. The pumps were prone to fail after 100,000 miles or isso, as was the 6-port fuel reservoir.
Does this help?
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#8
05-03-2018, 05:24 AM
I'll be an expert in this very soon, guaranteed.
Just not getting fuel to the rail consistently and I've narrowed it down to these 3 fuel delivery components.
Is the high capacity pump failing or the reservoir valve or the low pressure pump(s) in each tank?
Have no helper at this location and can't verify whether in tank fuel pumps are working.
Would the high capacity pump still pump out fuel if the in tank pumps failed?
When fuel gets to the rail it will start right up.
Thanks
Just not getting fuel to the rail consistently and I've narrowed it down to these 3 fuel delivery components.
Is the high capacity pump failing or the reservoir valve or the low pressure pump(s) in each tank?
Have no helper at this location and can't verify whether in tank fuel pumps are working.
Would the high capacity pump still pump out fuel if the in tank pumps failed?
When fuel gets to the rail it will start right up.
Thanks
#9
05-03-2018, 08:11 AM
#10
05-03-2018, 10:51 AM
Hotshot
It looks like multiple issues going on here. The fact you have to jumper the pins on the test connector to get the fuel pumps to turn on means the computer is not energizing the fuel pump relay. Does the Check Engine Light (CEL) illuminate when the key is in the Run position?
If the low pressure in-tank pump is not energizing I am not so sure the high pressure pump can pull through it. Could be a reason why the fuel output is low, but at least you get some kind of volume. Volume is only part of the equation though. It takes at least 28-30 PSI for the engine to run. Perhaps a few PSI less. Typical key on engine off pressure is 35-40 PSI. So you really need to check the pressure at the fuel rail test port with a fuel pressure tester. This can usually be rented.
If the low pressure in-tank pump is not energizing I am not so sure the high pressure pump can pull through it. Could be a reason why the fuel output is low, but at least you get some kind of volume. Volume is only part of the equation though. It takes at least 28-30 PSI for the engine to run. Perhaps a few PSI less. Typical key on engine off pressure is 35-40 PSI. So you really need to check the pressure at the fuel rail test port with a fuel pressure tester. This can usually be rented.
#11
05-03-2018, 12:23 PM
High pressure pump is sucking hard and no fuel is getting thriugh the reservoir.
I also disconnected blue fuel lines to reservoir and gas flows out from tank by gravity.
Next I keyed on the switch and no fuel pumps out of the blue fuel lines disconnected at reservoir inlet and no fuel pumps out from gas tank.
Question: would the low pressure in tank pump if working, pump out some fuel?
Ti answer your questions, the Check Engine Light (CEL) IS illuminated when the key is in the Run position.
Working on it today 'till the rain comes!
Thanks!
I also disconnected blue fuel lines to reservoir and gas flows out from tank by gravity.
Next I keyed on the switch and no fuel pumps out of the blue fuel lines disconnected at reservoir inlet and no fuel pumps out from gas tank.
Question: would the low pressure in tank pump if working, pump out some fuel?
Ti answer your questions, the Check Engine Light (CEL) IS illuminated when the key is in the Run position.
Working on it today 'till the rain comes!
Thanks!
#12
05-03-2018, 12:32 PM
Hotshot
The low pressure pump will push fuel out if it is running. So add another issue perhaps to your woes.
At least we know the computer is powering up since the CEL is on, but it appears to not kick on the fuel pump relay for 1-2 seconds. Best suggestion is to pull the computer then open it up for inspection. Leaking capacitors and/or burned components are very common these days.
At least we know the computer is powering up since the CEL is on, but it appears to not kick on the fuel pump relay for 1-2 seconds. Best suggestion is to pull the computer then open it up for inspection. Leaking capacitors and/or burned components are very common these days.
#14
05-03-2018, 02:14 PM
Hotshot
#15
05-03-2018, 03:05 PM
Great info. Thanks!
Will do that next.
Has to be something simple cause this is a well maintained nice truck.
I pulled the 6 port reservoir since my last post and will be cleaning it out...
Rain is holding out and I'll be here until the sun sets or truck runs, whichever comes first!
Thanks!!'
Will do that next.
Has to be something simple cause this is a well maintained nice truck.
I pulled the 6 port reservoir since my last post and will be cleaning it out...
Rain is holding out and I'll be here until the sun sets or truck runs, whichever comes first!
Thanks!!'