How's it going? I have a 2005 F150 with the 5.4L V8. It has 70,000 miles on it and until yesterday and has been a great truck. While driving in traffic yesterday the truck started running rough and hesitating. It through two codes - misfire cylinder 5 and misfire cylinder 6.
In response, I purchased two new coils and 8 new autolite plugs. The plug installation went smoothly and the coils all went on without incident. However, this didn't fix the problem!
The next day I found that cylinders 5, 6, 7, and 8 were all having issues. At this point I also had an "O2 stuck lean" code so I pulled the plugs and found all four brand new plugs fouled and smelling like gas and an ehaust that smelled like raw fuel. This led me to replace the O2 sensor on the drivers side. With the new O2 my lean code disappeared but I still had a rough idle.
Further troubleshooting found that injector 6 was stuck open (which presumably fouled my O2 causing it to read lean and dump fuel thus fouling all the plugs on one side). I replaced the injector and the rough idle disappeared and all seemed really well as the truck idled in my driveway.
However, as soon as I hit the road I noticed a major hesitation. The motor is also noticeably louder and has a very hard time accelerating. At this point I'm at a loss and I'm asking for any suggestions. I'm thinking that I've plugged up my cat by dumping so much fuel in to it and the hesitation is caused by a lack of breathing - does this sound possible? How would I confirm this without replacing the cat? Anything else I should look for? I'm fairly confident I have combustion in all 8 cylinders now so I'm leaning towards intake/exhaust issues.
Please let me know if you have any questions or if I left anything out.
As I figured it would, this has turned in to a nightmare...
I dropped the truck off at Hidy Ford in Dayton, Ohio yesterday and they had the truck all day. I openly and honestly explained to the service adviser everything that happened, including changing coil packs, spark plugs, and the #6 injector. I explained that the truck had no power under load.
Later that day they call me and tell me I need a new head on the drivers side because there is a stuck valve on the #6 cylinder. The adviser proceeded to tell me that they didn't find anything wrong and that their "drivability expert" didn't find any problems with the truck under load! I responded by telling him there is no way they test drove my truck if they didn't detect any problems under load.
The adviser then informed me that they didn't find anything wrong with any fuel injectors and that even if they did the customer satisfaction program warranty would ONLY cover the fuel injector. I called him out on only covering the fuel injector and him and the service manager, with me, reread the bulletin and clear as day it says that the warranty will cover the fuel injector and any related damaged parts. I then reminded him that I already changed the fuel injector and that is why they didn't find a bad one. I told them I had a receipt AND the bad injector for proof. The service manager then told me that since I changed it myself and since I'm not an authorized Ford technician that they can't replace the head under warranty.
They tried to give me the truck back and I refused to take it. There is NO way that a stuck valve is causing my main issue. I'm not disputing the fact that a valve may be stuck, but the truck is missing more then one cylinder under load.
I called the customer service hotline and they were a waste of time. All they did was call the service manager at the dealership I was just at. The service manager told me she would call Fords warranty department directly and see if there is anything they can do, but I didn't get the feeling that they are going to authorize anything.
I picked the truck up on Friday afternoon. It just so happened while I was asking detailed questions about their "diagnosis" the technician who worked on the truck happened to walk by. He told me he never actually drove my truck to recreate my reported issue of "no power under load". He told me he drove it through the dealership parking lot and that was it. He told me he was never told that I had already replaced a fuel injector, although I made sure the adviser was aware of that. He told me the only thing he found wrong was a slight miss at idle and therefore didn't check for any other problems.
I asked the service manager if the tech could at least drive the vehicle on the street and was told that he was too busy and wouldn't work on my truck anymore. I then told them that most likely the cat was plugged up and the technician told me that that was more then likely the case based on what I was telling him was happening. I asked if he could test for a plugged cat and he told me they don't have the tool to test it! So they charged me my $110 diagnostic fee, although they didn't actually even attempt to diagnose the reported problem, and I have my truck back in the same condition as it was when I took it in there. I also got them to put in writing that my truck would not be repaired under warranty.
The truck is now at my mechanics and he will fully document everything that has happened with videos and pictures. I have already briefly talked to a tech at another local dealership and he sounds interested in trying to help me.
I should be picking the truck up this Wednesday from my mechanic and at that point I will review the documentation and decide if I should go straight to a lawyer or give Ford a second chance to rectify the situation. My expectation is that there will be more then enough evidence to prove that a fuel injector stuck causing all the damage to the motor.
I just got a call from my independent mechanic and he confirmed that my catalytic converter is plugged up on the drivers side and that it was without a doubt caused by a stuck fuel injector. He typed up a two page report on all the things wrong with the truck (low compression on cylinder 6, plugged catalytic converter, fouled O2 sensor, 4 fouled spark plugs, and one stuck open injector) and connected every single issue back to the stuck open injector.
My next step is to call Ford again with this new information and give them one last shot to fix the damage under warranty. If they refuse again I will send the info to a lawyer to handle.
It's been 2 weeks now basically since I've had my Ford truck. I have pretty much lost all faith in Ford. I'm hoping that Ford Motor Company will step up and do the right thing and try to mend our relationship!
Has anyone else had to fight to have this warranty honored?
I would put the bad injector back in and take it to a different ford dealer along with the TSB printed out. Tell them you think the injector is bad because you smell gas, and you already replaced the plugs. Don't say any more. It will throw the code, and their paperwork will all work out when submitted to ford for reimbursement. They will replace the cat too. Tell them you heard of other people that had this problem and it killed the cat when the injector got stuck open. This happened to me on my 2005 5.4L F150.
I have an appointment with a different dealership this Monday. I talked to Ford Customer Care again and the supervisor there told me to leave the injector out because me replacing it shouldn't void my warranty. He told me to make sure I talk to the service manager and tell them that the injector was replaced under an "emergency" and that Ford should honor the warranty. We'll see......
Maybe I'm being stubborn or hard headed but I don't feel like I should have to lie to anyone to have Ford fix this problem, especially considering how widespread it is.
On the good side, I have already talked to a tech at the dealership I'm going to and he is very aware of this issue with these trucks. He didn't give me much hope though telling me that most likely I've bent a rod from hydrolocking the motor. He'll of course have to spend some time with the truck before he can confirm that 100% though, but he didn't mention that bent rods were a common defect from the stuck open injector.
So I took the truck to a different dealership and same result. Warranty denied because I changed my own injector. This is after a supervisor at Ford Customer Care told me that changing the injector myself won't void the warranty.
But, I got an additional kick while I was there....
Ford denied my original claim because there is no evidence that a fuel injector stuck open (because I replaced it). I then asked the dealership to just replace the clogged up catalytic converter under warranty (8 year, 80,000 miles which I'm under) and was told that Ford won't replace the cat under warranty because my fuel injector stuck open!
Last edited by Stewart_H; 05-14-2012 at 02:36 PM.
Reason: To remove legal discussion verbage
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Good luck with your case, KP, but please don't discuss your legal action in the thread.
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I had the same problem on my 05 F250. Turned out to be bad injectors. Also turned out the Ford has an extended warranty on this vintage truck because of known injector issue. Ford's warranty no. is 07M08 "Extended warranty - Fuel injectors. Contact your local Ford dealership and if problem is directly caused by a/multiple bad injector(s), they will replace at no charge. Hope this helps.
If you're denied again you can always file a complaint with your local BBB and/or Ohio's Attorney General office. It may not get you any relief, but it'll make you feel better. If enough people file complaints against Ford and the Ford dealership involved it just might get the desired results.
I'm pretty close to the end of my journey and I figured I would give one last update. I will follow the rules and leave out the legal drama!
Ford Motor Co. and myself reached an agreement, outside of a court room, that made it possible for me to replace the motor in my F150. Before pulling out the damaged motor we strapped it to a dyno and ran some diagnostics on it. We found that around 3,000 RPM the knock sensor was going crazy and pulling timing.
We pulled the motor, dropped in a replacement (that doesn't run right, but that's a different thread) and they tore down the old motor. What they found was a rod that was bent to the point that the piston, at top dead center, was 3/8" lower then it should have been! All other rods, pistons, and all valves were in good shape.
So, to summarize the damage caused by the fuel injector sticking open, I had to replace the catalytic converters (replaced both sides, although only the drivers side were clogged. The first cat on the drivers side completely melted and the platinum clogged on the inlet of the second cat. I had to replace the O2 sensor on the drivers side, and I had a bent rod in the cylinder that had the fuel injector stick open.
Congratulations on getting some results without needing to go to court. I think once they get this truck and the engine running again like it should you'll like it again. Im getting ready to check injectors on my 06 5.4L. I've been gradullay losing fuel mileage, so it's parked until I can look at the injectors. I have an early 06 manufactured in Dec 05.
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