i've never installed a new cam without doing major head work before. but this time im not rebuilding my heads so....

ive got a 93 f150 351w w/ the e40d almost 200k (i dont know if its been rebuilt prior) that im putting the Crane 444232 cam and exhuast headers for alittle more juice. nothing major just want more power for towing and a little more driveability.

ill be doing the timing chain also naturally. i dont want to getting into major modification of THIS motor (im building a 408 stroker dart block for this truck for later)

the question is: since i dont want to do a bunch of work on this motor what else should i do when i do this cam swap? summit says i need to valve locks and new valve springs/retainers... is this true? cus if i really do need new springs i, personally, would just do a complete rebuild on the heads - and i dont really want to dump money into heads if i dont need to.

opinions?

cam $230
timing chain set $40-80
valve springs/retainers $160
valve locks (stamped) $8 - ok so for $8 ill just do these but if im not doing new springs i shouldn't need new locks

but the springs? are they really required??? - i know its cheap of me to not want to but if its not necessary.



btw
i've got 32" tires on it, may lower the truck and get smaller tires if i can figure out how to lower the TTB, also be regearing eventually.

 

It's been said before that the stock springs are good for .500 valve lift. Your cam comes in under that. Plus there have been many folks on this forum have used that same stick without issues. So, if you don't have a problem with your heads now they should be fine with that cam.

In addition to what you're thinking you could step up to roller lifters. It's a great swap but does add a lot to the bill. If you find some on the cheap, roller tip rocker are great too. Also, since you'll have it off anyway, an upgraded water pump would be a good idea. You can never have too much cooling capacity and it could be reused with your stroker long block. Check your accessories too. Now would be the time to replace and upgrade anything that needs it.

And lowering TTB is not a very good idea. If you want a lower truck you should find yourself a 2wd.

 

Valve springs aren't a bad idea but some sets require head machining and in this case the replacement springs wouldn't be significantly stiffer than the originals so they aren't absolutely necessary. I don't know how or why you would ever need to replace the retainers and locks since they aren't wear items, once they are locked in place they never move. You do need the cam and lifter set BTW, can't re-use old flat tappet lifters.

 

i would only get the one's summit recommends with the cam kit. i would only need to replace the spring retainers and locks IF i replaced the springs as "recommended" by summit. naturally the lifters need to be replaced with the cam.

i am not having any problems with my heads as of now so i'll probably just keep the springs i have in them now, in there.


im not going to do roller cam with this block, the stroker DART block yes, but not this one.

and the water pump is brand new, so im already good there.



i would think that lifting the TTB is just as bad an idea, so i dont see the differnance. i want the 4x4 because i want it. by the time the new motor gets built that is when ill lower the truck, not before. i would think that camber/caster kits would work they are available from +3 to -3 degrees and should correct any steering issues


basically what im hearing then is that i do not have to change my valve springs. dispite summit racing's suggestion to do so??

 

Summit is a great source for parts but there techs leave a little to be desired. Some are good but most are no better than any parts monkey at the big chain parts stores. They can read a catalog and type some stuff into a computer but their hands on experience can be a little lacking.

The suspension up travel is what makes me think that a lowered TTB wouldn't work well. The 2wd guys can lower their trucks with offset I beams and still have the same up travel clearances as stock. No such parts exist for TTB that I'm aware of and by the very nature of an axle makes it impractical considering it has to have a level plane to travel in. Cut the springs and you're going to put the axle right on the bump stops. I'm not saying it can't be done. But to get a usable suspension I'm thinking you're going to have to fabricate all new bracketry, cut C notches in your frame, and ensure that you have clearance for the drive shaft and steering. You can do it if you have the skills. I have faith in you if you do. But it's not a job I'd like to tackle. Please take a lot of pics and document it here.

 

nother dumb question. i know that the 351w started using the roller cam in late 93. my question is if my block has the F4TE casting number will it DEFINATLY have the roller cam? or just be roller cam compatable.??

and if in fact i DO have a roller cam already, can i use the Crane 444232 cam or should i get a different cam? ......keep in mind im not going to dick with the speed density computer, and i have e4od.

my truck is a 93 351w (ill check to see what the casting says when i get home in the morning)

-thanks

fair enough. im still on the fence on whether or not i want to lower it. and if i do im not eggs-actly slamming it to the ground. its more of a its relativly easy to lower it alittle then ill do it, but if its a MAJOR pain the the butt then im not going to worry about it

besides like i said the "super fast" build thing is doooown the road as its gonna be about +20k in the building, so for now the truck is "work horse" duty

 

5.8 trucks built for the 1994 model year were equipped with a roller cam and of course some of those were manufactured in late '93, if your truck is a '93 model it likely won't have the F4TE block but if it does it should not have a roller cam.. but you never know with Ford. Of course there is also a possibility that the whole engine was changed at some point before you got the truck so who knows.

 

I know you PM'd me but i thought i'd just jump on your thread.

Going with the cam, GT40 heads, headers and rockers should not be a problem. After i figured out what was making my motor go all crazy it had great power and would spin both 33's on dry pavement (power breaking of course) stock tires it would spin off the line and slid you around corners real easily.

 

did you have to do a tune? (you never answered my question about your fuel system)


what a PITA to read with the starter in the way!!! it stopped raining after three days so i poked my head under and looked and i saw...

F4TE!!!! so my block is roller ready if not roller equipped...

so back to this question...
since im at least roller ready, if already roller equipped, should i stick with the Crane 444232 or go for a roller cam??

on summit i searched "93/f150/351w/camshafts/"computer compatible"
and the only thing that came up was either the Crane 444232 (flat tappet) or the COMP Cams 35-255-5 (flat tappet)

i know that summit is NOT the end all be all for what works. so are there any roller cams that would be better for my current setup? or nothing better? or just stick with the crane 444232?

i dont have any issues either way, just trying to maximize my options

btw i found a set of hedman 89270s on craigslist for $100 so those will be my headers


i dont want to tear into it to "just see" and then get stuck waiting for parts

thanks... sorry i have a tendency to over think things

 

If when you tear into it you have a full roller motor the Comp 35-349-8 is the upgrade option. If you don't have a roller cam equipped motor with all the roller specific parts that are needed(spider, dogbones, lifters, and pushrods) then it's probably not going to be cost effective to go to a roller cam unless you can source all that stuff used. Bought new with a roller cam the whole shot could cost you $600 easy.. compared to the $200 it'll cost for the flat tappet cam and lifter set. Your call of course.

 

i hear that. thanks for the clarity

only the comes up as for the 302 not the 351. but i will do my own search and post what i find. when i searched for roller cams in summit there wasn't an option for "computer-Controlled Compatible" so ill have to look one by one. or call comp cams in the morning.

either way thanks for the help. and ill post my findings (just to have a complete thread)


to bad i dont have a snake camera or id figure out a way to find out what the hell this motor is for sure before tearing it apart!

 

I did nothing with the fuel system. Everything is stock in that department. Although i did install an adjustable FPR to bump line pressure if i wind it to 4500+ which is hardly ever.

302s and 351w use the same cams

 

All windsor family motors use the same cams so there really aren't any 302 or 351 specific bumpsticks.

 

oh yeah i keep forgetting that ford changed the firing order on the 302s back in the 80s. not that that wasn't work around able... anyway

cool

hey thanks for all the help. im probably going to just stick with the tried and true crane 444232. if nothing else the F4TE block will make it easier to sell when i finish my dart block - in a million years- or if i wind up having to do a COMPLETE rebuild on this block someday ill swap it to roller just 'cause.



SO for the record the Comp 35-349-8 roller cam IS computer compatible and WILL work on a 351w. Though would require the spider and dog bones to install.

THANKS

 

last question for now...

what timing chain set should i get? i was looking at the cloyes C-3057X or the 9-1138. The 9-1138 has provisions to advance or retard the crank and cam shaft. both are billet steel sprokets and double roller chains


i dont forsee the need to advance or retard the crank or cam. unless somebody knows something i dont.

only thing im doing to this motor is the 444232 cam, headers, and possibly lightly worked over gt40 heads down the line. im not changing the valve srings at this time, ill hold out on that till i get gt40s