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Old 06-04-2011, 05:48 PM
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KC Biodiesel

Yesterday on my way home from work, I passed a '99-'02 SD with "KCBiodiesel.net" on the side with a decal claiming how much $$$ per gallon the truck was saving. I'm pretty sure these guys are miss-leading what they're doing...but I guess there's the chance I've missed something. Here is their site:

KC BioDiesel :: Turning Used Oil into Fuel

Sounds like a form of WMO or SVO depending on base oil; not biodiesel. Or am I missing the point?
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:59 PM
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Motor oil is not biodiesel. They need to re-think their marketing. It makes them sound ignorant.
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:47 PM
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Motor oil is not biodiesel. They need to re-think their marketing. It makes them sound ignorant.
That's pretty much what I was thinking, but thought I'd make sure there wasn't something new I might have been missing. That does happen to me from time to time....usually end up with a mess of toe jam in my mouth.I sent them an email asking for a little bit clearer explanation to what they were doing...just in case maybe they're leaving something out. If I hadn't been in a hurry and this guy had been sitting somewhere, I would have like to talked shop with him.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:42 PM
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I would be curious as to how much their service costs. There are quite a few people I know of running used motor oil in their rigs, but they have built their own settling/filtration/de-watering set ups. They seem to be having success with it.
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:09 PM
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I would be curious as to how much their service costs. There are quite a few people I know of running used motor oil in their rigs, but they have built their own settling/filtration/de-watering set ups. They seem to be having success with it.
It looks like they're just running someone else's equipment. Before I started this thread, I did some poking round on their site & googled that Blue Grass system they claim they use. From what I can tell all it is...is a couple of filters (the last one being a 1 micron) and an electric pump. I sure hope they email me back, I'm very curious just what they know and what they think they know. Like I said in my first post...I'm far from an expert with biofuels...but I know what biodiesel is. And they ain't running it from what I'm reading. Any thoughts Don?
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:06 AM
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False advertising at the least. They are not making Biodiesel.

I am familiar with the process. I worked for a large trucking company in Seattle years ago that used a similar company. They would take the used engine oil from DIESEL TRUCKS ONLY, filter and blend it with the fuel in the trucks tanks. They would blend no more than 5% waste oil into the fuel tanks.

Obviously they are playing on the "biodiesel" name to promote their business...........
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Old 06-05-2011, 09:01 AM
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I am familiar with the process. I worked for a large trucking company in Seattle years ago that used a similar company. They would take the used engine oil from DIESEL TRUCKS ONLY, filter and blend it with the fuel in the trucks tanks. They would blend no more than 5% waste oil into the fuel tanks.
At one time, I remember a buddy that worked for them at the time...telling me that the Volvo's American Freightways/FedEx Freight were running in this area were set up to burn a percentage of motor oil straight out of the oil pan. The guy was telling me they never changed the oil, just the filters and topped off the engine oil. Apparently the two largest expenses to a trucking company are labor and fuel. This was one way they could reduce the amount of fuel they burned. But I degrees...
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Obviously they are playing on the "biodiesel" name to promote their business...........
Yeah, that was my thought, but I felt I should ask those that know more about it than me.
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhilton View Post
At one time, I remember a buddy that worked for them at the time...telling me that the Volvo's American Freightways/FedEx Freight were running in this area were set up to burn a percentage of motor oil straight out of the oil pan. The guy was telling me they never changed the oil, just the filters and topped off the engine oil. Apparently the two largest expenses to a trucking company are labor and fuel. This was one way they could reduce the amount of fuel they burned. But I degrees...Yeah, that was my thought, but I felt I should ask those that know more about it than me.
I believe its called the Sentry System or something like that. Has a reservoir for clean oil you top off and just change filters every so often. Might be used in conjuction with CF-type bypass filtration.

I forget the details, but like stated, it is low amounts that are being injected.
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:57 PM
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So the sales manager emails me back this message:

"Not quit sure what and why you are asking this question. I use the example if somebody ask you for a Kleenex you don't think anything about it, you pass them what technically is called tissue paper not a Kleenex. The term Bio-diesel is a very loosely used term, mixing purified oil with diesel fuel clearly falls into the category of biofuels. Oil in it purest form has many organic properties as you mentioned in your email.

Thanks,

Josh Hawkins, Sales Manager"


Uh yeah, all oil is biomass in it's purest form...just like all salesmen are spin doctors. I'm thinking of a crafty reply to the guy before I send my reply. I figure since it took him several days to get back to me...they must very busy. My original email was this:

"I'm far from an expert on the subject...but what your advertising sounds allot like waste motor oil (WMO) and not biodiesel. Biodiesel is a form of diesel fuel that's been refined from an organic oil biomass (animal or vegetable) and not used motor oil or ATF. Am I missing something on your site?"

I guess the part where I questioned wither it was fuel made from biomass (ie plant or animal) and not petroleum based struck a nerve. I tried to keep the question simple (I have a hard time spelling long technical words)...but still make sure I understood what they actually were making fuel out of. Oh well, it's been said on this forum before...a sucker is born every minute. I'm just thankful to have found the information that I have on here & a couple of other true biofuel centered websites.
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:25 PM
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Wow. I stand by my original statement. And actually, Mr. Hawkins' reply makes them sound even more ignorant.
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:22 AM
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Oh well, it's been said on this forum before...a sucker is born every minute. I'm just thankful to have found the information that I have on here & a couple of other true biofuel centered websites.
If you feel like it, you can send another email advising them that legally, in order to sell biodiesel, you must have it tested for compliance with ASTM D6751. Ask to see proof of this. Ask whether the company pays the IRS and the state taxes on the fuel they produce. Ask whether their business is registered with the state, whether they have insurance and/or bonding.

I'm betting the answer to all these questions is no. They are operating in legal gray areas, mostly because there have not yet been court decisions regarding these things. But you'll be left holding the bag if you buy fuel from them, whether it's a legal issue or simply something going wrong with your engine.

The fact that the sales manager became really defensive is very telling. When someone asks me about my business, I'm happy to tell them any and all they want to know (in fact, my official title is "Biofuels Evangelist.")
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:26 PM
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I'm thinking the reply should say something about the fact most people believe 'bio-diesel' is an environmentally friendly alternative to the petroleum products we typically use. The 'carbon neutral' thing and all...

I forgot now if they said what %'s they 'recommend', but I'm guessing its low. Not sure how many miles it is, but I have a friend who services big trucks for a living and they change oil every 3mths. So, simple math means adding 10gals of oil to the fuel tank over 3mths/1000's of gallons.

Still, it ain't BIO-ANYTHING!!!

I do wanna know more about this 'military polymer' magic stuff that removes brake fluid?? and other contaminants. That sounds coooool!
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Old 06-08-2011, 06:29 PM
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Well, I can't leave well enough alone. I'm going to email the clown back and slap his bees nest to see what kind of responce I can get out of the moron if he thinks I'm too stupid to know the difference between true biodiesel & WMO blended with diesel. If he replies, I'll post it here...for the entertainment value of course. For the record, this is the email I sent him:

There's also a difference between Coca-Cola and Pepsi...but where I come from it's all called Coke no matter what the brand...when someone ask you if you want a coke you know they're talking about a carbonated drink. The reason I ask is because there IS a difference between biodiesel and blending used motor oil or ATF with diesel fuel like your site is advertising. Biodiesel is NOT made from recycled petroleum based fluids like what your marketing. To market/sell true biodiesel it needs to meet & pass ASTM D6751. Does your process produce a fuel that does? This is the best way I know to explain what true biodiesel is: Biodiesel Community - There's also using waste vegetable oil (used fryer oil) and/or straight vegetable oil (if it's new oil)...but I'm going to
leave that out of this discussion to keep from muddying the water.

It's made from long-chain fatty acids derived from vegetable oils or animal fats...no where in ANY description does it say anything about blending in used motor oil, used transmission fluid or any other waste petroleum product. Yes, allot of folks blend B100 with dino-diesel to get a blend anywhere from B2 all the way up to B95. I know what WMO and used ATF will do to the fuel system on my 6.0L...and I know what it's going to do over time to your '99-'02 white extended cab F250 that I passed on the highway last week. Guess it's a good thing those injectors are only $125 a piece.

By the way, is there any way you can explain your "military grade polymer" to me...and how it works? Sounds like a snake oil...but I'm more than willing to learn something new. That's how I got where I am on my knowledge about biodiesel and other alternative "fuels" you can run through a diesel engine.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:19 PM
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And when I got in from work today...this was waiting for me in my emailbox:

I am not going to get into a technical debt with you but, I will respond to several of your questions. First, all we are doing is providing our clients with purified oil and they mix it with there diesel fuel, so technically we are not providing any fuel merely oil for are clients. Second if you refer to EPA federal register section 80.522 & CFR 80.29-80.30 you will see that used motor oil in any form is permissible in 2007 and older highway vehicles and 2011 and older farm, construction and marine equipment. Third the polymer is the secret sauce without it we would be like everybody else using rock salt that only absorbs up %50 of the water, acids and paraffin that cause the injector problems. The polymer has almost %100 absorption rate of the previously mentioned harmful liquids, the polymer is the reason that we have had vehicles run this oil for 250,000 miles with no problems included injectors. Most vehicles actual get better fuel mileage and a noticeable increase in motor performance. The reason being is the oil when purified properly acts as lubricant that the motor desperately needs due to the poor quality of diesel fuel in this country.

This guy just doesn't seem to get it. I wonder if I should ask him if the polymer comes in a bottle labeled "Hot Shot's diesel secret"...what ever that other snake oil is. I'm pretty much done with the moron, if any of y'all want to contact him...go for it. He pretty much irritated me when (A) he assumed he could snowball me with the whole Kleenx thing and (B) keep misspelling my name. Guys like this will be their own undoing as some point. I'd like to be the guy that pulls up behind him on the interstate to ask him if he needs help.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:19 PM
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