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  #1  
Old 04-27-2011, 08:51 PM
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Combustion Gas in Coolant

I've been monitoring my coolant pressure and from reading various posts on this forum, I decided to try the combustion gas test. Using leak tester from Napa with the blue fluid.

Well the fluid turned yellowish-green - a positive reading.

I've read that this can be caused by leaking head gaskets or possibly some form of an EGR cooler failure-though not sure how. Are there any other ways that combustion gas could get into the coolant?

Some other observations/points that may be relevant are:
  • gas test performed at 1200 rpm (high idle mod)
  • coolant pressure seems to be running between 12-14 psi, however if I relieve the pressure when cold, it will build to 6-7 psi hot, until stepping on it, at which point it will get back to the 12-14 psi range.
  • i do not hear any tea kettle noises, nor see it rise over 16 psi at WOT
  • it will puke when loaded with truck-camper
  • tech performed TSB 09-08-03, with no failure results
  • initially smokes on cold start - video posted in another post (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/10...l#post10264415)
Any help is appreciated
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott6.0PSD View Post
I've been monitoring my coolant pressure and from reading various posts on this forum, I decided to try the combustion gas test. Using leak tester from Napa with the blue fluid.

Well the fluid turned yellowish-green - a positive reading.

I've read that this can be caused by leaking head gaskets or possibly some form of an EGR cooler failure-though not sure how. Are there any other ways that combustion gas could get into the coolant?

Some other observations/points that may be relevant are:
  • gas test performed at 1200 rpm (high idle mod)
  • coolant pressure seems to be running between 12-14 psi, however if I relieve the pressure when cold, it will build to 6-7 psi hot, until stepping on it, at which point it will get back to the 12-14 psi range.
  • i do not hear any tea kettle noises, nor see it rise over 16 psi at WOT
  • it will puke when loaded with truck-camper
  • tech performed TSB 09-08-03, with no failure results
  • initially smokes on cold start - video posted in another post (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/10...l#post10264415)
Any help is appreciated
have you parked the truck on a hill nose down and pulled the egr valve check the chamber it sits in it should be dry
is there any oil in the coolant bottle

yes combustion gas can come from either a bad head,bad egr cooler, streched head bolts,bad head gasket
cheezit had that vidio not to long ago
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  #3  
Old 04-28-2011, 06:09 PM
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refer to tsb 09 08 03 for this concern.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezit View Post
refer to tsb 09 08 03 for this concern.
Dealer perform the TSB, said everything was "normal". They could not reproduce the puking. I looked at the TSB and didn't see any mention of testing for combustion gases. Does this mean that some exhaust in the coolant is acceptable Or is it that they didn't perform the TSB correctly?

Thanks,
Scott
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLADE35 View Post
have you parked the truck on a hill nose down and pulled the egr valve check the chamber it sits in it should be dry
is there any oil in the coolant bottle

yes combustion gas can come from either a bad head,bad egr cooler, streched head bolts,bad head gasket
cheezit had that vidio not to long ago
I'll check the EGR valve this weekend.

I should have also noted that I do not have white smoke.

Is there any other way that combustion gases could get in the coolant? For instance with the injectors, etc.

Thanks,
Scott
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:44 PM
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I would suggest that you may want to hook up a pressure gauge in line with the degas bottle. also I would look at ect eot splits.
The chemical test is not the most accurate out there. you can also try to find a shop with a 5 gas that also works pretty well
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  #7  
Old 04-28-2011, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezit View Post
I would suggest that you may want to hook up a pressure gauge in line with the degas bottle. also I would look at ect eot splits.
The chemical test is not the most accurate out there. you can also try to find a shop with a 5 gas that also works pretty well
I'm using the Dashdaq with a coolant pressure sensor at the degas bottle. Readings generally are between 12-14 psi, except at WOT.

EOT-ECT delta is 6 psi around town and 11 psi on the highway. Only time I've seen it go above 15 is after cresting a hill, where the ECT drops faster than the EOT.

I've read where the gas test could have false negative, but didn't know they could also have false positive readings. What is a 5 gas?

Thanks again
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:59 PM
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ok so what is the pressure in the tank at WOT. imo this may be were you issue is comming from.
A 5 gas analizer is used in emmision testing for IM240 states (think califorina smog testing)

one of the issues with the chemical test is deloution by sucking up any coolant, another is the age of the checmical.
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  #9  
Old 04-28-2011, 11:12 PM
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My truck was puking, but only sometimes at WOT or while towing. I'm sure that it started as stretched head bolts which lead to head gasket failure.

My shop was able to make the determination after about a day of diagnostics. If your shop is telling you they can't find anything wrong, I would suggest finding a new shop...

Last edited by ZeroTucker; 04-28-2011 at 11:12 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLADE35 View Post
have you parked the truck on a hill nose down and pulled the egr valve check the chamber it sits in it should be dry
is there any oil in the coolant bottle

yes combustion gas can come from either a bad head,bad egr cooler, streched head bolts,bad head gasket
cheezit had that vidio not to long ago
Parked it overnight, nose down. Here is a picture of the manifold:
Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - Scott6.0PSD's Album: EGR - Picture

And another of a finger swipe:
Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - Scott6.0PSD's Album: EGR - Picture

Felt more oily, but maybe this is the exhaust soot. I couldn't smell coolant, but I don't have the best sniffer either.

Oh, and no oil noticed in the coolant.
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:21 PM
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egr cooler is going IMO. thats what happend to me. i caught mine while it was in the wet stage and not the flooding stage like most. pulled mine off and coolant was coming out both ends. id say its time for a new one. BPD imo
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:22 PM
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What coolant are you using and is it at 50/50 concentration?

Early on, my EGR valve had oily sticky fouling. It was combustion related. A new valve, new flash updates, reduced idle time, and a good fuel additive solved that problem. Your EGR material looks like mine did.
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezit View Post
ok so what is the pressure in the tank at WOT. imo this may be were you issue is comming from.
A 5 gas analizer is used in emmision testing for IM240 states (think califorina smog testing)

one of the issues with the chemical test is deloution by sucking up any coolant, another is the age of the checmical.
WOT, the pressure gets to 16ish. I haven't had the gauge installed long enough to see what the pressure is with the loaded camper (where it would typically puke).

For the gas tester, I don't believe I got any coolant sucked into it (coolant level was down at the sticker), though I could be wrong. Also the chemical was unsealed right before the test, or did you mean age in general, sealed or unsealed?
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:38 PM
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Wow, you guys are fast!

rdunagan: Is being in the wet stage enough for the dealer to replace under warranty?

bismic: I'm using the motorcraft gold coolant @ 50% concentration. Flushed this past summer & installed new upper & lower hoses. No reason except I was working through the maintenance since purchasing it used. I've now installed the coolant filter and am on the 3rd filter, though after opening the first two I didn't notice much in it, at least nothing compared to what others have posted.

The dealer recently reflashed the modules for a smoking on start issue (didn't fix it). I'm using the motorcraft additive (antigel up to now) and I don't idle it much. I cleaned the EGR valve a month or so back and didn't look too bad this time. Is there a way to test if it is bad?
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Old 05-01-2011, 08:55 PM
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I was hoping that if your coolant was VERY dilute, you would see some higher pressures. I hate to say it, but it sounds like head gaskets to me.

I do not know of a way to test the EGR valve. Is it the original? I forgot to mention that I changed mine out in 2008 because Ford had updated the design somewhat.

You said they did TSB 09-08-03 ......... did they leak check the EGR cooler out of the vehicle?
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