This is from: Chassis Saver - Vintage Mustang Forums (see last post)


Ok my stats report told me someone here was talking about me. I'm the manufacturer of Chassis Saver. I'm glad to hear good things being said. If anyone has any questions I'll be happy to help. Just to address the multi step POR-15 process:
Much of the multi-product hype is marketing. POR & Chassis Saver are chemically alike. They are moisture cure urethanes. Urethanes in general DO NOT have very good adhesion to smooth surfaces. The cleaner and metal prep sold by POR are a valid but worthless attempt to solve the deficiency that urethane exhibits on smooth steel. I've tested the method of degreasing and etching smooth steel a few times and never had any success improving adhesion. You can still get a sharp knife to peel the material. When steel is rough as with tight rust or a blast profile, adhesion is completely different. We only promote our product to be used in this manner. If you must coat smooth steel we recommend that you grind or sand with 60 grit paper and create a profile in the metal. Epoxies are the only type of coatings that will adhere to smooth steel with no more prep than degreasing. Self etch primer is not even necessary when using a 2K epoxy primer.

Eric Rosenthal
VP - Magnet Paints
eric@magnetpaints.com

 

If you have rust , nothing stops it . Period.. bare clean steel , (absolutely no rust) needs an etching primer .Period.

Has anyone ever sanded an OE finish & found epoxy ?

Absolutely not ...OE's have the best shot at making something last ,all brand new ,no rust anywhere ,& if you drive it & wash it normally , you will have rust, save for the vehicles from the south that are not exposed to chloride ...

Rust encapsulation products are simply a joke . Snake oil .Period ..They do not work . If they did , every bridge in the world would be covered with it ...As we all know , that is not the case .

Who ever came up with the name"epoxy primer " ,was a marketing genius ..Most are sucked in to it ...

Most that restore a vehicle , do not treat it the same as it was from the factory , so just about anything that is done will last for a while . In the case of an older veh , may last longer the second or third time around ,due to better maintenance alone ...

Rust never sleeps ...

Flame suit on ....

 

I think he's right about how a restored vehicle is treated vs the original factory version.

Interesting topic, my current 2 cents in another post:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...st-bullet.html

 

ive used both and chassis saver is a joke.

 

I prefer epoxy on bare metal, followed by any fillers and then high build urethane. Never had any problems. Many others, I researched thoroughly, use the same system on older vehicles with no problems. I have also coated my '73 frame which had some serious heavy scale rust in a few areas from the salt on the roads in Tenn. with Magnet Paints Chassis Saver. One coat of the aluminum prouduct, and one coat of the semi gloss black and 4 years later, no rust and looks good. I think it's key to get a good thick covering on. But anyway...to each his own.

 

I used chassis saver and so far I'm impressed, BUT my truck stay's out of the elements. I will say though, brake fluid and other auto fluids don't touch even blemish it. I can't say for longevity and if I would have had access to a powercoater who could do frames, I would have done that. I also sandblasted almost all my parts before I applied the paint. I did try the paint on a couple rusted parts just to see how it works (of course the loose rust was taken off) and it stuck very well. I put a highpower pressure washer directly on it and the paint stuck. My brother has used both chassis saver and rust bullet on his mud racer which takes some abuse not only from the mud/rocks throwing but also the rigorous powerwashing and has held up very well. I will agree though, NO paint is going to stop rust dead. Basically, the surface to be painted and even powercoated has to be clean in order for any coat to work. The biggest thing is how well the coating will hold up and not flake off and cause rust to get underneath and start rusting again. And yes, 2 or even 3 coats has to be applied and not waiting too long between coats.

 

Hmmm, having done this a few times myself, I get the same protection from cleaning the frame, wiping it down with solvent, then rattle canning on some primer and paint. There's no magic to it. ANY coating will protect bare metal. POR15 looks pretty though, I'll admit that. So does 2.99 Wal-Mart spray paint if you do it right. Let's face it, it's a frame. The factory never even painted it to begin with, so I'm already ahead of the game.

 

The two points I highlighted I wholeheartedly disagree with. In order for the rust to progress, the metal must be in the presence of moisture and oxygen. A thick coating that seals in the rust, will also seal out oxygen and moisture, thereby stopping the progression of rust formation. The rust will still be there under the coating, but, provided the coating stays intact, it will not get any worse.

 

Rust is the end result of oxidation...Oxidation is the end result of iron, moisture and oxygen being in direct contact with each other, so since it is a pyramid of ingredients you remove one component to the pyramid then you effectively stop the formation of the rust. By painting the product whether it be your frame, your fenders or whatever you can effectively remove two of the 3 components to make rust, Oxygen and Moisture.

same sort of example is the fire pyramid. You have to have 3 components to have fire live, 1 you need heat, 2 you need fuel, 3 you need oxygen, when you combine all of those in the proper proportions then you get fire or combustion. Once you remove any one needed component to that pyramid then you will effectively kill the combustion process and stop the fire.

 

So , theoretically, you can knock off any rust on a panel that is loosely adhered, prime it and paint it . Since paint is non porous, it will never rust again ..

Crap , I've been doing this all wrong

 

It won't continue to corrode provided the coating applied completely encapsulates the rust and stays 100% intact. Miss a small spot, get a small chip, etc and the rust will start to spread again. Plus you have to make sure you cover every surface with the coating. So on body panels you have to do them inside and out, or the rust will just keep spreading.

 

Yes, agreed, and the mfg. states the rougher the rust texture the better the product adheres, just need to be sure to wire brush and knock off loose scale. It doesn't work good on smooth metals it will flake and chip. Key is keeping it coated so there are none of those tiny pinholes, or chips etc. I had some very rough texture on my frame and I coated very well 4 years ago, and occasionally I touch it up for good measure, but so far, no more rust. Also, I brushed it on so it would go on thick.

 

I can't speak of the POR, but a product made by Kilz called Rust Cap I used on my brand new Radius Control Arms, sandblasting the OEM finish off, then painted with the RC. So far, it's been flawless, even the sharp edges are clean. It's been subjected to Ohio & PA winters & lots of rough winter usage. The OEM finish only lasted 18 months before rusting. Not scientific by any means, but enough to satisfy me. I've had success with etch primer, top coated by a Zinc

Regarding Ford OE treatments on frames currently (mid 90's to present), the wax only coating simply doesn't work. They don't even bother to paint under the wax. I've seen numerous full frame Ford vehicles with perfect bodies, but structural frame damage from rot. Back in the day, when the frames were painted, then undercoated, they lasted a lot longer. Rarely would a frame rust out.

The late model OEM sheet metal finish (1990-present) has really held up (save for poor design, ie heals of front fenders, rear wheel arch rust).