I'm pretty confident that stop-leak was used in the cooling and oil systems. The coolant that was in there was muddy-orange and had some good amounts of particles (seemed more like general dirt than metal particles) in it. I'll be putting in a new radiator and hoses as well as flushing the heater core. The other cooling system surprise was when I took the heads off, I found a piece of what looks like an internal radiator fin in the coolant jacket around one of the cylinders. It was wedged in the opening at the top of the block where coolant would flow up into the head.

As far as the oil, it was so thick when I drained the pan that I have to assume some thickening additives were in there too. The oil pan wasn't nearly as sludgy as the intake valley (solid cake) but it was black and thick. Surprisingly the bearings were all in pretty good shape and the cylinders weren't scratched up either.

Thanks a lot for your input on the air pump delete-if you don't mind maybe I can message you some specific questions once I get that far. I'm not motivated to remove the EGR-just the air pump and related parts and only because it's a pain in the a** to work around.

I'll take your advice on the oil filters too.

Thanks again.

 

I also removed the air pump, air tubes, and so on... I run Headman headers with the EGR bung with a new tube for it.....Keep the EGR functional..... I've had no codes codes or driveability issues...Runs better than ever.... and I can kinda actually see the engine now..

 

I have removed the smog pump and associated tubes on my 302, first with the stock exhaust. Now I'm running true duals with a bung for the O2 sensor on the passenger bank collector. Never had a check engine light or any problems.

If you get shorty headers they will bolt in place of factory manifolds both to the heads and to the factory collecter. No further exhaust modification is required. Usually you can find shorty headers for $120-$150. Try summit racing.

P.S. - I've also heard lots of bad things about fram oil filters from lots of different people.

 

This forum is awesome! Thanks again everyone. Great to hear of so many people removing the thermactor system and not seeing any problems from it.

Just came home from the machine shop with my block. Will be assembling everything starting today.



The idea of bolt-on shorty headers sounds great. I guess all I'll need to make sure of is that the ones I buy have the EGR fitting on the drivers side. Here are some pictures of my old manifolds. You can see 2 tubes on the drivers side and 1 tube on the passenger side.

I know the tube with the cloth wrapping is the EGR tube. Am I correct to say that the other tube on the drivers side and the tube on the passenger side can both be eliminated as part of the thermactor delete? The passenger tube isn't EGR related is it? It's been so long since they were installed on the truck that my memory is hazy. The check valve on the passenger tube tells me that it was a thermactor tube, but what do I know.


The top tube with the cloth is my EGR tube and the bottom one is a thermactor tube and will not be necessary if remove the thermactor setup right?


Same as picture above just a different angle.


Same pieces different angle.


Same pieces. Not sure what the plug in the manifold was for but it looks as rusty and original as the manifold so I believe it left the factory that way.


Passenger side manifold with what I believe is another thermactor tube. This should also be eliminated right? So the passenger header I buy will not need any fittings right?


Passenger manifold again.


Both manifolds oriented like they would be installed. Again, the way I plan to proceed is to keep only the EGR tube with the cloth on it on the drivers manifold. Neither of the other 2 tubes will be installed anywhere. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Same idea, but with the tube which goes to the exhaust pipe in front of the cat resting behind the manifolds. Cat will be removed as part of the thermactor delete.

I'm trying to increase the hillbilly factor in my neighborhood by leaving some car parts all throughout my house as this project goes on (The carpet under the exhaust manifolds in the sunroom was already trashed and will be torn out next month.). I've been successful in spilling quite a variety of engine fluids all over my driveway as well as powerwashing the sludge out of the top of my heads into the front yard before they went to the machine shop. The sludge in the yard was a big part of the success I've had in smearing grease from my shoes around my house just after I've had to walk in that area. So far so good! The neighbors are also impressed by just how long I've been able to let a truck I just purchased sit motionless in my driveway with a jackstand under the trans while slowing destroying the asphalt under the front passenger tire.

 

I believe your understanding on which tubes are what coming from the manifolds are correct.

 

I also think you are correct. On my truck with the 302 I only had one tube coming up from the exhaust before the first cat I think. This one tube, however, did have the same metal "top-shaped/bobber-shaped/rounded-half-conical" shaped piece at the intake end of the tube, where yours has two. For this reason I am 99% sure it is the same system. On my truck this metal piece (of which you have two) slid into a rubber hosed "T" way back behind the valley of the motor and down low. After pulling all of the plumbing to the exhaust and pump off, I plugged any leftover hoses with plugs of my choice (spark plugs were the perfect size, and not visible) and a hose clamp.

Forgive me for being so vague about this system-I've never known the proper name for it. It actually seems appropriate to me to call it the EGR system because the smog pump operated by the serpentine belt pulls exhaust gas out of the exhaust and into the intake. Seems like exhaust gas recirculation to me. You've been calling it the thermactor. Is this the proper name? If so I'll adopt it.

I guess when you find shorty headers you do need to make sure they at least have the EGR (as you've been calling it) hookup. You may be able to find headers with the other hookups also and just plug them.

 

DIYit and Skinsfan6-Thanks for the input. So far noone has responded that they have had problems after removing this system so that makes me feel good.

I'm not sure about the naming of everything either. I've seen it called secondary air injection, thermactor and probably a few other things since I started researching it. People seem to be familiar with calling it the thermactor system and parts suppliers seem to like to call it AIR injection or secondary AIR injection.

It seems like there are a lot of slight variations to this system even within the 460 engines. Hopefully my pics and everyones info will be of use to someone besides me someday, but even if not this forum has been a hell of a help to me.

I ordered the following shorty headers from Summit today:
Hedman Hedders 89460 - Hedman Street Hedders

Cost was 275.00 and as was mentioned earlier they will (hopefully) bolt right up to my heads and into the factory y-pipe. They are coming from Ohio to me in Illinois so I'm sure they'll be here before I'm ready for them. They come with the EGR bung too.

Big picture-I'm still trying to source a torque converter for my project. A local trans shop quoted me $475 for one, but I'm interested to know if anyone else has a "trusted supplier" that might be able to blow that price out of the water. (wishful thinking, I know). Thanks.

 

As far as I know, the AIR pump has nothing to do with EGR. The EGR system takes gases from the manifold, and through the naturally occurring vacuum in the manifold, exhaust gases are sucked into the combustion chamber. The AIR injection system, on the other hand, is present to protect the catalytic converter. With OBDI equipped engines, the computer and sensors are not accurate enough to provide such tight control that the exhaust gases won't oscillate between too rich and too lean. This is hard on the catalytic converter (especially if it runs too rich for too long). The AIR system is present to help the catalytic converter catalyze the extra fuel still present in the exhaust fumes. This is why, when the AIR pump is removed, but a catalytic converter is still present, the cat very quickly plugs up and needs to be replaced (removed).

However, this can get more complicated when turbo vehicles (such as diesels) are equipped with an EGR system because of the boost pressure, a pump of some sort is needed to pressurize the EGR gases above the boost level of the air intake system.

 

Frustration is setting in. I received my Hedman Headers part Number 89460 from Summit today and set them next to my stock manifolds and I don't see any way these are going to fit into my y-pipe.





I actually called Summit to ask for the proper headers. I described my 95 f250 ext cab 460 EFI with E40D truck exactly to them. I asked about the EGR bung (which these headers do have, and I asked whether these would fit into my stock y-pipe. Everything should just bolt right up is what the guy told me. Now I'm not sure whether they sent me the wrong parts or whether their info is inaccurate. It looks like other people have had success with the 89460 Hedman headers so I'm not sure what happened. Any else using the 89460's?

 

OK, assembly has begun. Couple of questions about my main bearing clearances. My Haynes manual says that my Main Bearing Oil Clearances should be as follows:

Standard: 0.0008 to 0.0015 inch
Service Limit: 0.0008 to 0.0026 inch

The machine shop said that my crankshaft was within limits and that I should order standard bearings. I plastiguaged the main bearings tonight and it looks like I have the following clearances (from front to back):

1. .002"
2. .002"
3. .002"
4. .002"
5 .003" (maybe slightly less)


This is what numbers 1-4 looked like (very close to .002").


This is #5, the rear main bearing. (Coming in at just under .003")

Not sure that it matters or not, but the rear seal was not installed when I did this. How worried should I be about the .003" clearance on #5 and if I need to address this, what do I need to do? I'll be using a standard (new) oil pump.

Also, on bearings 1,2,4 and 5 there was a definite top piece and a definite bottom piece, but the top and bottom portions of the new #3 bearing are exactly the same-same appearance, same writing on each piece. Does this sound correct or should the top and bottom of bearing 3 be different from one another?


These are the old #3 Bearing halves. Note different part numbers, different sized tabs.


Also note that only the block half of the bearing has the oil groove in it.


This is half of the new #3 bearing. (It's identical to the other half I received.) I think it's unusual that this replacement has the oil groove in the cap side piece and that the tab doesn't fill the indent in the cap.

I think I was sent 2 block halves of this bearing which really sucks because I don't want to go to the store and buy a whole new set of bearings- I ordered these online and if I'm right about not wanting to use them, I'm at a standstill until this is resolved. This project is moving tectonically. Maybe others can chime in and let me know whether these bearings are correct or not. It would be nice if I was worried about nothing, but I doubt it.

 

Haven't heard any responses about my headers or bearings-probably because I posted at 3:38 am.

I was able to track down a set of Sealed Power (Federal Mogul) main bearings about 20 miles away and sure enough, the Thrust bearing halves are different.

Gonna check clearances on these new bearings with plastigage and see where I'm at.

 

I was gonna post something on those headers the other day but didn't get a chance sorry.. I almost bought those at summit's suggestion as well.. After looking at them I found the 89510 set to be a perfect application.. This set has the mid-length headers w/EGR bung and headman y pipe w/O2 bung all you have to do is cut your existing pipe and connect it... personnaly I just welded straight 3" pipe to it removeing the Cat altogether going to a new muffler and TP... Hope that helps, I can also give you the part number for the stainless 3" magnaflow tailpipe (less than 70 bucks) that will fit your truck if you decided to replace the rest of the exhaust...

 

Yeah, you know I probably should have known from the picture, but most of the time the picture is just "representative" of the type of part you'll receive. That's why I called Summit for some peace of mind. I've seen reference to those 89510's you mentioned since I noticed the problem with the Headers sent to me. The fact that they come with a y-pipe is great. Is yours a 4x4 and automatic too? Just want to make sure you've got the same setup I do.

Hopefully Summit will pay to ship these back to them and let me just pay the difference for those 89510's. I've never ordered anything from them before so this will be kind of a do or die for them as far as me buying from them in the future (like they really care).

Thanks again for all your help man. Any thoughts on my bearing issue? My supplier has replied that that's how they are supposed to be, but the replacements I bought resemble the ones that came out of the engine (solid cap half of the bearing with tang that matches the cap indent).

Only reason I'm still asking is because there would still be time to take the 2nd set back if the ones I tried earlier are in fact OK with the oil groove in both halves.

Take it easy.

 

Yeah mine is a 96 crewcab shortbed, 460, E4OD, 4x4... and the 89510s fit good even put them on with the motor still in the truck though it was tricky sneaking the header in on on the passenger side.. BTW, be sure to double nut all the bolts for the collector connections, I had problems with the bolts loosening even with lock washers..but now they are good...

I double checked my Hanes and my other shop manuals for the earlier motors and they jive with Hanes... Something isn't right, Your clearences are loose... did you torque in three steps like around 50/80/105. I know they make oversized bearings but I think .002 is the smallest..and if your machince shop didn't turn your crank and said it was good who knows.. Give the crank 1/4 turn and re-torque and measure...

As for the bearing differences... Are you saying you got another set now to replace the first set? And that this set is like what came out...? I would used the new ones if thats the case... I'm no expert but have rebuilt more than a few motors over the years and if it were me I wouldn't take the word of some guy over the phone that makes $8 an hour...

I have really noticed over the past couple of years that no matter what I buy or what I pay somebody for there seems to always be a problem.... I love how everybody claims that their customer service for this or that is top notch,,,, The bottom line is they shouldn't need great CS, they need quality control improvement..... Just get it right the first time for christ sake... Sure you'll fix it the point is it should be right from the get go... Ok I'll get off the soap box now...

Keep us updated, and BTW I was just at Summit racing yesterday...They are a good company but I have learned that it comes down to me knowing what part I need vs asking them....

AL

 

Nevada Al- 89510's are on the way out to me once Summit processes the exchange. Funny that with the extra piece (the y-pipe) there is barely a difference in price from the 89460's I returned. Sounds like we've both got the same luck with receiving wrong parts, but it sounds like you're a lot better at figuring out what you need-that's why this site is so valuable to me.

As far as the bearings goes-yes, the second set of new bearings I bought at an O'Reilly's auto parts near me resemble what came out of the engine. Before I put them in, I scraped the plastigage off the bearings and journals, turned the crank 90 degrees and measured again...same results: .002, .002, .002, .002, .003. I cleaned the plastigage off again and tried the O'Reilly's bearings (Federal Mogul) and got the exact same results. All surfaces were spotless before installing and I tapped the caps into place before torquing the mains down.

The shop has verified that my crank was within spec although it was tagged as "low limits". The first 4 mains appear to be within the "service limits" and the 5th appears to be just at or just slightly over the "service limit". Although I'm not happy with the clearance of number 5, I think I'm resigning myself to going with it and hopefully still having decent oil pressure. Too bad I can't just buy 1 .001 oversized bearing. I've read about guys building racing motors with much higher clearances, but they also have high volume oil pumps. For what it's worth, my machine shop said they don't expect me to have a problem with pressure due to the clearance on #5. They are a well respected shop in Illinois (Opel Engineering) that everyone seems to have nothing but good things to say about so I feel like their opinions are valuable.

I installed the camshaft today after messing with the bearing measurements and was unhappy with the red lube compcams included with my camshaft. I doubt this stuff will still be there in a few weeks when I'm ready to start the engine. I have a feeling I'll be pulling it out and using some of the darker thicker stuff before all is said and done. I'm really scared about all the cams I've been reading about getting destroyed during break in.

I'll definitely keep the double nut on the exhaust hardware in mind when I get to that point.

Thanks again!