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  #16  
Old 04-05-2011, 08:24 PM
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So your saying that 15% of the engines hp is lost through the transfer case while its in 2wd mode?

Id like to see some proof of that. It still seems very high for just one component.

Now on the other hand i will believe 30% drive train loss when 4wd is locked in.
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  #17  
Old 04-05-2011, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fred Smedley123 View Post
I would be interested in any F150 4X4 numbers that support your assertion that drivetrain losses are substantially lower than the SD. I was unable to find any.

How about this - its the Raptor, and shows approximately 17% drivetrain loss - and i'm pretty sure the Raptor is only available in 4x4.

2011 Ford F150 Raptor Dyno Graph Photo 3
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  #18  
Old 04-05-2011, 09:35 PM
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Actually I think we have a little problem with comparison here though.
I'm pretty certain the dyno Mike from 5 star uses is somewhat different from the dynojet seen in the Pickuptrucks.com article and seen in K&N dyno charts.
So a few numbers to consider.

The 2wd 5.0 that Mike has the chart for has 25% loss
The 4x4 F-350 that Mike has a chart for has 32% loss

The charts in the article seen at the beginning of this thread showed 14-15% loss on the F-150s tested.
As I posted above a Raptor tested (which should be 4x4) showed 17% loss.

A K&N graph of a 05 super duty with the 6.8-v10 shows somewhere in the range of 30% loss - http://www.kandn.com/dynocharts/57-2567_dyno.pdf
Mike meanwhile shows losses of around 38%

I believe Mike actually mentioned it before on here, but the dyno he uses somehow reads lower.
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  #19  
Old 04-05-2011, 09:47 PM
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Agreed, i believe the dynos are playing a major factor. Also the conditions and altitudes of each of the dynos
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  #20  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:07 PM
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Personally its not changing my mind...I'm dead set on the 5.0L V8. I'm sure the Ecoboost is great and the one I test drove was plenty powerful. But the 5.0L is the one for me.[/quote]

I spent 3 hours drag racing the 3.5 and the 5.0 at the factory sponsored drive event last year at Fontana Raceway. Over about 10 runs the E.T.'s were very close, usually a toss up. Although very impressive in the 6,000 lb. trailer tow, the 3.5 doesn't leave much room for improvment as the 5.0 will. Also, the main push of the event was the Eco-boost and we'll never know what the engineers programed into the motors. I chose the 5.0 and am glad I did. If I ever need a little more power, it will be cheap and easy to get with the coyote.
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  #21  
Old 04-06-2011, 03:29 AM
640 CI Aluminum FORD 640 CI Aluminum FORD is offline
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Originally Posted by 1oldBronc View Post
I spent 3 hours drag racing the 3.5 and the 5.0 at the factory sponsored drive event last year at Fontana Raceway. Over about 10 runs the E.T.'s were very close, usually a toss up. Although very impressive in the 6,000 lb. trailer tow, the 3.5 doesn't leave much room for improvment as the 5.0 will. Also, the main push of the event was the Eco-boost and we'll never know what the engineers programed into the motors. I chose the 5.0 and am glad I did. If I ever need a little more power, it will be cheap and easy to get with the coyote.


Hey I'm glad to hear this! Congrats on the new truck by the way...I won't be making my purchase until around July or August, I think an FX4 Extended Cab 5.0L V8 in Blue Flame is about the perfect truck for me. Personally (adamantly) I will not need the amount of power the 5.0L produces. If in the future I do in fact add any power to it, it’ll be for recreation and not so much necessity. I currently drive a Ford Ranger and not once in the 3 years I have owned it have I even used it to its fullest capability. But I can't wait for that new truck though, the tension is killing me!
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  #22  
Old 04-06-2011, 07:06 AM
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Although very impressive in the 6,000 lb. trailer tow, the 3.5 doesn't leave much room for improvment as the 5.0 will. Also, the main push of the event was the Eco-boost and we'll never know what the engineers programed into the motors.

How the heck do you know how much improvement there will be. Im not trying to change your mind that the 5.0 is a great engine. But people keep making statements like this with out reason.

Nobody knows how much hp is left in either engine at this point. And yes people that do custom tuning will know exactly what ford did to the tunes and will be able to change it the same as every other engine.

The ecoboost is not a smoke and mirrors design. It doesnt run on some secret new technology. It has just simply combined several technology that have been around for a very very long time.

Again im happy you are happy that you decided on a 5.0, but dont say that theres not as much hp left in the 3.5 as there is in the 5.0. Becasue honestly you nor does anybody else have a clue what the potential is yet.
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  #23  
Old 04-06-2011, 07:20 AM
Fred Smedley123 Fred Smedley123 is offline
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Originally Posted by BURNSTOUGHFORD View Post
How the heck do you know how much improvement there will be. Im not trying to change your mind that the 5.0 is a great engine. But people keep making statements like this with out reason.

Nobody knows how much hp is left in either engine at this point. And yes people that do custom tuning will know exactly what ford did to the tunes and will be able to change it the same as every other engine.

The ecoboost is not a smoke and mirrors design. It doesnt run on some secret new technology. It has just simply combined several technology that have been around for a very very long time.

Again im happy you are happy that you decided on a 5.0, but dont say that theres not as much hp left in the 3.5 as there is in the 5.0. Becasue honestly you nor does anybody else have a clue what the potential is yet.
Your kidding right? This is with a intake and a 5 star tune on 87. The list is near endless when you see the mods already in place on the 5.0 mustangs YouTube - 5 Star F150 5.0L AFE intake 0-110
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  #24  
Old 04-06-2011, 02:38 PM
LCPullman LCPullman is offline
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Originally Posted by Fred Smedley123 View Post
Your kidding right? This is with a intake and a 5 star tune on 87. The list is near endless when you see the mods already in place on the 5.0 mustangs
I think that idea is that yes, there are lots of mods readily available for the 5.0 and yes, you can get quite a bit more out of it, BUT do we really know that won't be the same for the Ecoboost?
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  #25  
Old 04-06-2011, 04:33 PM
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I think that idea is that yes, there are lots of mods readily available for the 5.0 and yes, you can get quite a bit more out of it, BUT do we really know that won't be the same for the Ecoboost?

You are correct sir.

I havent taken anything away from the 5.0 (i own one hehe) but im meerly defending the 3.5l because people seem to bash the thing with out reason.

The honest truth is we dont know what the potenital of the 3.5l engine is.

There are a lot of negitive assumptions about the engine and i personally believe that it comes from guys not willing to accept the fact that a v6 will out perform there v8 in every possible aspect except sound.
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  #26  
Old 04-06-2011, 10:41 PM
1oldBronc 1oldBronc is offline
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Originally Posted by BURNSTOUGHFORD View Post
How the heck do you know how much improvement there will be. Im not trying to change your mind that the 5.0 is a great engine. But people keep making statements like this with out reason.

Nobody knows how much hp is left in either engine at this point. And yes people that do custom tuning will know exactly what ford did to the tunes and will be able to change it the same as every other engine.

The ecoboost is not a smoke and mirrors design. It doesnt run on some secret new technology. It has just simply combined several technology that have been around for a very very long time.

Again im happy you are happy that you decided on a 5.0, but dont say that theres not as much hp left in the 3.5 as there is in the 5.0. Becasue honestly you nor does anybody else have a clue what the potential is yet.
I have plenty of reason for my statements, not the least of which would be common sense. Another would be the old saying "there's no substitute for cubic inches". About 90 of them !!!
I did not say "theres not as much hp left in the 3.5 as there is in the 5.0" as BURNSTOUGHFORD suggests. I stand by my statement that there is more room for improvement in the 5.0. That could be HP, torque, or even gas mileage. It stands to reason there will be many more aftermarket parts available for the 5.0 and it will be able to make more power than the 3.5 based on size and the ability to boost the intake.
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2011, 11:02 PM
640 CI Aluminum FORD 640 CI Aluminum FORD is offline
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Originally Posted by 1oldBronc View Post
I have plenty of reason for my statements, not the least of which would be common sense. Another would be the old saying "there's no substitute for cubic inches". About 90 of them !!!
I did not say "theres not as much hp left in the 3.5 as there is in the 5.0" as BURNSTOUGHFORD suggests. I stand by my statement that there is more room for improvement in the 5.0. That could be HP, torque, or even gas mileage. It stands to reason there will be many more aftermarket parts available for the 5.0 and it will be able to make more power than the 3.5 based on size and the ability to boost the intake.
I have to agree, Personally I think the 5.0L will be easier to modify for more power. I mean lets face it...This engine was orignally designed for the Mustang. (A car that at least 80% of the people who purchase will be tuning to some degree). Ford knows this just as well as The Aftermarket does. If we are stictly going to talk about who's engine can outrun who's to the next redlight, well...from what I have seen (In Stock Form) the 5.0L and Ecboost are pretty much a toss up. Add a pair of Twin Turbos and Direct Injection to the 5.0L and its no compatition. As its already been shown in the video a few comments before this one...A 5.0L with only a light tune and intake is already setting 0-60's in Lightning territory (Low 5 seconds). Imgaine what a beast it would be with a Twin Turbos? Or even just a mild Supercharger?

Point in case...Both the 5.0L and Ecoboost have their strong suits. Both are realtivly efficent, and both are very powerful. Yes, I admit I'm a bigger fan of the 5.0L and I have my reasons, I had to learn the hard way that the 5.0L vs Ecoboost debate is really just as useless as the Ford vs Chevy debate. A die hard Ford guy will never convince a Die hard Chevy guy that his Ford is better...And likewise a Die hard Chevy guy will never be able convince a Die hard Ford guy his Chevy is better. Same goes with the 5.0L and Ecoboost, People like myself who opt for the 5.0L have OUR reasons, and the people who opt for the Ecoboost have THEIR reasons. Instead of making these two engines a great divide amongst us Ford fans, why don't we just be thankful that we even have the option to get either of these truely supream power house's.

And lets not forget that we are all on the same team here, which is team Ford!

Thanks - Nate.
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  #28  
Old 04-06-2011, 11:15 PM
1oldBronc 1oldBronc is offline
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Thanks. I agree also. Both motors have their strong points. I liked the 3.5 very much, especially after learning of the torture tests it went through. But alas, my choice was the 5.0.
Wouldn't it be awesome to see the 3.5 in a ranger or the mysterious F-100.
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  #29  
Old 04-07-2011, 01:53 AM
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Thanks. I agree also. Both motors have their strong points. I liked the 3.5 very much, especially after learning of the torture tests it went through. But alas, my choice was the 5.0.
Wouldn't it be awesome to see the 3.5 in a ranger or the mysterious F-100.
That would be cool. But I think even the De-tuned 355hp SHO Ecoboost might be overkill for a Ranger or Ranger sized truck. It would make a hell of a performance rig that's for sure. I'de like to see a Ranger come out with a 2.0L Ecoboost and the 3.7L Mustang V6 and Maybe a 3.5L Ecoboost as a top engine option...Either way it doesn't matter since this is the Rangers last year.

But who know's, maybe the future will bring us an F-100 or something similer.
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  #30  
Old 04-07-2011, 07:07 AM
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Thanks. I agree also. Both motors have their strong points. I liked the 3.5 very much, especially after learning of the torture tests it went through. But alas, my choice was the 5.0.
Wouldn't it be awesome to see the 3.5 in a ranger or the mysterious F-100.

If your going that far why not put the 5.0 in. It makes slightly less power and might be less of a hand full to drive.
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