Scrapping the 460, for a 302. What do you think?

[77'F-150Mudder]

I've been doing the 5 litre thing for years now and say without a doubt that I would NEVER want a 302 in a truck, built or not. The 5.0s do OK in Mustangs because of their weight. Even in Mustangs the 5.0 was considered to be weak on torque in most circles. I've built a few 302/5.0 in the 400-500 hp range and haven't been impressed with power under 3000 rpm with any of them. Granted, a 2400 or so stall would get you right into the power, but then you be faced with a few other issues. One would be the tremendous amount of heat a stall adds to the tranny. Good cooler or not, you're going to shorten the tranny's life. Two, a decent conveter is going to run +/- $300. That's quite a bit of gas for the 460. And finally, with the slippage of the stall it would probably make the 302 get mileage close to the 460.
Another 2 cents...... I just hate to see people step down in engine size.
Remember, there's no replacement for displacememt!

[masterbeavis]

If it helps you any, when I put a 460 in, and dumped the 351m, I gained about 1 MPG.

[jimlj]

I think the 302 is a great engine, BUT, I don't think it belongs in a truck! I have had several pickup trucks in the 30 years I have been driving, and the ones that got the best milage had big engines with the exception of a '81 F150 with a 300I 6. I would take the 460 over any V8 Ford ever put in the trucks this forum covers.

If you want good gas milage, get a small car. I don't know the used car market where you live, but around here I bet I could find one for about the cost of the engine swap.

Thats just my opinion, and its like an a** hole, every one has one, and they usually stink.

[Racerdave]

Shoot.... This is my first 302 truck, I had a newer Lariat F250 with a 460, has tonz of problems with it (includeing gas) Always got hot noone could figure it out?. I sold it. used 1/2 of the money I got back from it and bought my 77 F-100 with 302, it was a shortbox and in great shape(first thing that caught my eye), and when the PO. poped the hood and I seen that little motor I was like..... umm nevermind, I borrowed it for a week, got about 6 mpg more than the 250, bought it and put intake and carb on it, gets sweet gas mileage. and I can stomp al of the little (rice burners) in my town. The main thing was intake and carb, its still out of tune with the A/F mixture (too ritch). but still gets great MPG. I love my 302. I wouldnt trade it for anything.

[Thudpucker]

The pro's and con's are:

I must pull the 460 to fix the bearings.
I'm taking that 'zero' degree gear off the cam.
That's caused me no end of trouble with the timing.
I have some exhaust manifold leaks.
The 460 uses big gas! This engine used to get 11Mpg.
But it all fits, and works very well, and is powerfull.

The 302 has some fitting issues.
Motor mount perches.
Exhaust headers and pipes.
There might be a problem with the tail shaft/drive shaft match.
Lower horsepower outputl
Not enough gain in Fuel milage!
And this piticular 302 has a serious water leak in the passenger side Head.
The big 77 radiator might work, but the 82 Radiator wont work.

Swapping that 302 has too many if's.
I think I'll look a little further into it, tomorrow, but right now, I'm leaning toward fixing the 460 and sticking with it.
The difference in fuel cost in 10,000 miles is only $400 bucks.
That makes the repair without alterations look pretty good right now.

I'm hoping the Gubbermunt will come up with some kind of incentive to convert all our old engines to F.I.
Maybe with that and 'Corn Gas' we can lower our cost of operation.

[Racerdave]

lol keep dreamin... All you have to do for fiting is go to the wrecking yard and find a donor truck. not that hard, just have to have the time. good luck with everything.

[Torque1st]

>I'm taking that 'zero' degree gear off the cam.
That's caused me no end of trouble with the timing.
>

I assume you are talking about a straight up timing set??? I have heard some 460's had the retard ground into the cam, -check with the 385 engine forum. The timing gears used do not have anything to do with the ignition timing.

[Matts72]

Rather than fix your beat up 460 see if the wrecking yard has a FI 460. I never liked the 460 because I had endless problems with it. I like the 351 Windsor motor because it has everything the 302 didn't along with the good stuff. A FI 460 is going to make tons of power but again you will be paying through the teeth in gas.

[Chas1234]

I think someone already said this but I am going to say it again . Get a small car if you want good gas milage . You have said that the 302 donar engine has a coolent leak...that alone would sway me why rip into an engine when you can fix the one already in the truck ..The 460 runs I would give it a good tune up . Along with that what is the overall condition of the truck itself . How are the tires are they properly inflated ? is everything lubed up correctly, are the brakes dragging ? .. I ripped the 300I6 out of my '78 F100 and put a 302 in it . I 'll say that the 300 was a far better "truck engine" then the 302 ,just my experence with the 302 . I will agree with the others that have said that once it is all said and done the cost of refitting the truck could buy you alot of gasoline.
Its really up to you , I have never owned a truck with a 460 in it .
Jon

[Thudpucker]

[quote]Originally posted by Torque1st
[b]>I'm taking that 'zero' degree gear off the cam.
That's caused me no end of trouble with the timing.
>

I assume you are talking about a straight up timing set???

Yes Eric, that's what I'm referring to. I have a 'mild' stock grind from Summit racing.
I put the 69 Lincoln timing gear in place of the original.

Now I just cant get the Ignition to time correctly. It starts like a dream when it's cold, but when it's hot It will not!
It acts like the battery is dead or the starter is dragging. Neither is the case, it's someting to do with the Ignition timing.

When it starts, it runs and idles just fine.

I have to pull the engine back out anyway. I have some ratteling bearings to fix. Ill change it back to stock. I liked it very well back then.

I have decided to scrap the 302 effort, and fix my Diesel, then pull this 460 and fix it.
I like the F.I. Idea. I just have too many things going on now, to fool with adding F.I. to my engine.
But it's in the back of my mind.

[Torque1st]

Call Summit and check with their tech support and find out what timing set you are supposed to use with that cam.

As far as the timing is concerned what ignition system do you have? Is it a stock DuraSpark or aftermarket? If it is a DS is it hooked up correctly? In start mode the DS system has a timing retard function that helps with hot starts. Without it you will get the symptoms you describe.

[Thudpucker]

"In start mode the DS system has a timing retard function that helps with hot starts. Without it you will get the symptoms you describe."

It's the stock Dura spark system. What ever it came with from the factory. I've tried both my Boxes on a friend's 302 and they both work well.
His Unit does not make a difference on my engine.

I didn't know that! I dont see it happening when I have the timing light hooked up though.
The start and run voltage are true though. I have no trouble with backfiring etc....so I think the DS unit is working. Both the Vac Avance and Mechanical Advance work.

Using the light to time it at 10 D advance, does not work. It's too fast. Wont hardly start when it's cold.

Timing it by ear, and performance it works well when the light shows 6-8 d, advance.
It does not work well when timed closer to TDC either. A real narrow timing window there.

I cant run the engine up past 2000 with no load, or the bearings start ratteling. So I'll just drive slow till I get the DIesel going.

Soooo the 302's a dead issue, the 460's staying, and I'll work on it after the 7.3 Diesel gets going

Thanks a million to all you guys who offered an opinion and the reasons behind your opinion.
Hoppy

[Hi Ho]

My 460 is a fuel guzzler. I need it though because I tow a trailer and use it for work.

[Thudpucker]

my 460 get's 10-11 Mpg now, while it's empty and light and just driving like an old man should.

My 88 F-250 7.3L Diesel get's 10-11 under the same conditions.

However loaded and pulling a load (29' 5er) against a wind, the Diesel milage usually drops down to 8-9 Mpg.
One time, going north on I-25 from Albuquerque to Montana, against the wind, up those steep mountains, the Diesel milage dropped down to 5 Mpg, and much of the way up those mountains I was down to 35 Mph.

I dont know what the 460 would do under those same conditions.

I used a Chebby 454 under a load one time and it struggled along on 3 Mpg. I wrote that thing off as another one of those 'Mistakes' that a large company makes and wont admit to!

[Racerdave]

haha... yeah... I know what you meen. FORD! Keeping the name alive!