Stancor relay 586-902 vs OEM GPR warning........Maybe?? - Page 4 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums



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Stancor relay 586-902 vs OEM GPR warning........Maybe??

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  #46  
Old 03-28-2011, 01:41 PM
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Though pressurization with inert gasses has helped arc suppressing in many areas, I'd suspect the sealing is minimal of the OEM relays based solely on their costs. This means the 'suppression feature' won't last long. On top of that, the glowplugs, by design, reduce their current draw as they heat up. This means the liklihood of an arc, when the relay breaks, is significantly reduced as the current is reduced. The liklihood for an arc when the relay 'makes' (closes) isn't huge as this is a 12VDC system.

As far as discs being used in relays - been going on for decades. Most common example I can think of is the classic GM v-8 starter, with the integral solenoids. They've had discs as long as I been around and, given their costs, have a excellent track record for performance. I think you'll find most other "round" solenoids have discs in them as the 'moving' contact. Their rotation is usually random though I've seen some 'auto rotation' types that were designed for space use....no, they weren't affordable.

FWIW, when the time comes to swap mine out, I've got a marine rated, continuous duty solenoid (200A) that will go under the hood.
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  #47  
Old 03-28-2011, 02:27 PM
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Markomark, thanks for the info on the relays. I'm not an electrical guy so I didn't know about the 'disk' style relay. I'll have to do some of my own research on that. Now I'm considering swapping the Stancor over to the one Bill posted on the previous page...

Tried to rep, still in the clink.
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  #48  
Old 03-28-2011, 03:52 PM
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Average FLA on GP systems that i have tested all were in
the 106 amps area. This was from start to finish of the cycle
no matter how long the pcm cycled the system.

B
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  #49  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn View Post
...But I believe when you key the truck to start, the GP relay turns off, then turns back on again for x minutes Dependant on the temp of the oil.
Nope. When it's on it's on, but yes it's based on oil temps, too.
I wired a relay on mine to interupt the GPR signal during cranking, otherwise ALL the drain is on the battery when cranking.

Years back a member at TDS cut his oem GPR open. It did indeed have disks and he observed the wear on the disks and that the lug with the main incoming current had severe damage from use. He concluded that if you were rotate your GPR every year or so this would move the in-current to the other lug and extend the life of the relay.

On the GPR on-off-on issue. My '97's do that, but my '96 will not no matter what RPM I rev to.
I think a lot depends on the condition of the glow plugs and how efficient they are. The more current they draw the less likely the GPR will cycle on and off.
I put new plugs in my '97 last fall and the cycling started, it never did it with the old plugs.
My '96 I replaced those plugs about 10 years ago, but only about 40k miles ago so I doubt they are bad yet.
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  #50  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MADVAN View Post
The relay is just not a relay.
The oe relay is filled with a gas to keep arch under control.
Its contacts is also a disk. The disk rotates every cycle of the relay.
The pcm will PW control the relay in the event of to high or to low
of batt voltage. Low is so you will have enough power to rotate the motor
for starting. High is protection of system.

B
My first replacement was an OE , as it turns out it lasted less than a year . I went with it due to it being filled ...Been through one more GPR 110 and 4 more 109's since ..

The 109's are warranted for a year , so I at least don't have to pay for them ...
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  #51  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:59 PM
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Thanks Jim.

Just never seemed like they would stay on when the started engaged.
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  #52  
Old 03-28-2011, 10:03 PM
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I have a test light that shows power , nothing ,or ground by showing a red or green light , looks like a good time for a vid of a cold start with the test light on the post from the PCM ....
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  #53  
Old 03-28-2011, 11:56 PM
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I looked at mine when I left work. Mine does not cycle on and off if I hold it around 2000 RPM. Just stayed on for a couple minutes and turned off. My GPR doesn't come on when the engine is warm. Pretty sure my chip did that..

any chance the glow plugs cycling on and off could be controlled via a chip?
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  #54  
Old 03-29-2011, 03:03 AM
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There's a pic of one cut open in this thread. Im by no means an electrical guru and have no clue how it works but it looks like two of the discs are completely shot

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/10...lug-relay.html
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  #55  
Old 03-29-2011, 06:46 AM
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Thanks to all

Quote:
Originally Posted by DZL JIM View Post
Nope. When it's on it's on, but yes it's based on oil temps, too.
I wired a relay on mine to interupt the GPR signal during cranking, otherwise ALL the drain is on the battery when cranking.

Years back a member at TDS cut his oem GPR open. It did indeed have disks and he observed the wear on the disks and that the lug with the main incoming current had severe damage from use. He concluded that if you were rotate your GPR every year or so this would move the in-current to the other lug and extend the life of the relay.

On the GPR on-off-on issue. My '97's do that, but my '96 will not no matter what RPM I rev to.
I think a lot depends on the condition of the glow plugs and how efficient they are. The more current they draw the less likely the GPR will cycle on and off.
I put new plugs in my '97 last fall and the cycling started, it never did it with the old plugs.
My '96 I replaced those plugs about 10 years ago, but only about 40k miles ago so I doubt they are bad yet.
Jim, I think that may be right. I tested my GP's, 2 show high ohms. I'm going to replace all of them then report back here.

Thanks to all that contributed to this thread, lots of good info.
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  #56  
Old 03-29-2011, 07:09 AM
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Hey, confirmed! Thanks for the link, I never get up to the SD forum.



Can you guess which lug had the main incoming power?
So I bet swapping the lugs your GPR will last much longer.
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  #57  
Old 03-29-2011, 07:18 AM
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So how does it work? Im guessing pcm command comes in on the right side disc and constant power on the upper disc that's melted but then what?
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  #58  
Old 03-29-2011, 08:19 AM
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Jim

Once one of the lugs have taken a dump its over for the relay.
Switching the input to output will have the same results. (its junk)
With an oe relay you can hear it chatter when it releases. This is the
disk getting ready for the next cycle.
Anyone have a build spec on the stan?
As stated before the life of the relay has alot to do with batt voltage
under load. With the gp system active and motor running you do not want
to see any thing less than 12 volts. The gp system under load will have an
average voltage drop of 2 volts. GP's are rated 11v and relay is 16v. This is total load on charging system. (not a test acrossed the relay)
Common to see with good alt and batts is low 12.?? area under load then a jump to 14.4 at gp shut down.

I use the ih relay. I dont know if the ford and the ih are made by the same
manu.

B
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  #59  
Old 03-29-2011, 09:05 AM
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  #60  
Old 03-29-2011, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda_jim View Post
902= 80a copper
906= 80a silver.

On the SD with AIH we have removed the AIH and split the gp system in half with the relay.
They never have an issue after this change. It now uses 2 relays. Left and right bank gp's

Bottom line is in obs if the relay was 10 to 14v and not 12 to 16v with equal clamping force it would last longer.
This is not factoring the FLA it can handle.

B
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