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  #16  
Old 03-25-2011, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muktown View Post
I agree. A relay is a relay. If the pcm is switching on and off the stock one it would be switching on and off the stancor as well. I dont understand how the pcm knows how much voltage the gps are using because I don't think there is feedback from the glow plugs to the pcm at least nothing I know of?

Maybe your alt is starting to go bad? Or your stock gpr had a bad contact inside?
Every PSD I've seen had the GPR cycle on and off if rev the engine.
The GPR I took off was 3 years old and still working fine but i wanted the stancor before the OEM failed on the road.
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Old 03-25-2011, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hussler View Post
Actually, it's a good design practice to monitor the voltage/current at the device you want to control. Stancor web site indicates it is rated at 12volts @ 8 watts. A little math indicates the relay coil resistance is about 18 ohms.

@ 18 ohms and 11 volts current = .61 amps
@ 18 ohms and 14 volts current = .77 amps

If OEM relay was 15 ohms (don't know, again just speculating) then ...

@ 15 ohms and 11 volts current = .73 amps
@ 15 ohms and 14 volts current = .93 amps.

If - when it stops raining hard I'll go out and measure my OEM GPR coil resistance.
Well, this is interesting ... my OEM GPR relay coil measures @ 2.5 ohms. That means ...

@ 2.5 ohms and 11 volts current = 4.4 amps
@ 2.5 ohms and 14 volts current = 5.6 amps

Any bets PMC starts cycling GPR at about 5.0 amps? And yes mine will cycle (Off - On) if I take off immediately.
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  #18  
Old 03-25-2011, 02:21 PM
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Just because the voltage needle goes up doesn't mean the GPR turned off.
Watch the voltage with the scan gauge while driving. it will only go up to about 13ish untill the GPR turns off, then it jumps up to 14.4.

it's really noticeable on my volt meter on the dash that came with the truck. No slight movements for on and off.
I've honestly never seen mine turn off when I started moving.
maybe the 94's are different?
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1994 F250 XLT 4x4 Standard Cab - T-444E Direct Injection Turbo Diesel, 5 SPD M/T Z/F S5-420, Rosewood 160cc Stage 1's, PHP Tuner, 6637, Short Throw Shift Kit, Valair Kevlar/Ceramic, 140V IDM, T-500, 285/75/16 Cooper Discoverer ATR. Steyr C9-A1.
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  #19  
Old 03-25-2011, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda_jim View Post
IMO you need to be careful with the larger Stancor relay, it may melt the GP's if you treat your rig like me....ie. drive away with the GPR still active or use the AIC for warming the engine.

FSM quote:

Verify this by increasing the engine RPM w/the GPR active....watch the battery voltage dip up and down....or the head lights go bright and dim. This is the GPR being switched on/off by the PCM.


This does not happen with the STANCOR relay #586-902 no matter how high you rev it.

Anyone else notice this?? or did I screw up....again haha
Jim, I changed to a Stancor relay a couple of months ago and have not noticed any thing unusual in the way it operates except I think my wait to start light stays on a little longer.
Personally I don't think it is a good idea to have head lights on or any other heavy current draw, the GP's need all they can get, and I would not recommend setting the AIC until the glow plugs shut off. This would also allow for a little warm up time for oil circulation and temp to rise a bit before increasing RPM's, its something I learned a long time ago, it maybe old school now (IDK). I plan to install a switch to turn off GP"s when not needed when I get some other priority's take care of.
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  #20  
Old 03-25-2011, 02:53 PM
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Dawg, I agree, let it warm up but I get in a hurry sometimes....Ok all the time haha. I'm letting it warm-up now because of the non cycling GPR.

I edited my last post with this in case it was missed.

Ref: cali engine w/ a shunt.

DTC P1395 or P1396 will set on the bank that is reading less than 39 amps.
Does this mean the PCM monitors the amp draw vs voltage??
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  #21  
Old 03-25-2011, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussler View Post
Well, this is interesting ... my OEM GPR relay coil measures @ 2.5 ohms. That means ...

@ 2.5 ohms and 11 volts current = 4.4 amps
@ 2.5 ohms and 14 volts current = 5.6 amps

Any bets PMC starts cycling GPR at about 5.0 amps? And yes mine will cycle (Off - On) if I take off immediately.
Jim, I think you are on to something.....I think I have just enough knowledge to make me dangerous with electrical stuff.
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  #22  
Old 03-25-2011, 03:00 PM
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I just was thinking.
You guys all are driving Automatics.

Maybe its a bit different with the StickShift, no TRS could effect how the PCM reflects on the GPR.
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1994 F250 XLT 4x4 Standard Cab - T-444E Direct Injection Turbo Diesel, 5 SPD M/T Z/F S5-420, Rosewood 160cc Stage 1's, PHP Tuner, 6637, Short Throw Shift Kit, Valair Kevlar/Ceramic, 140V IDM, T-500, 285/75/16 Cooper Discoverer ATR. Steyr C9-A1.
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2011, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn View Post
I just was thinking.
You guys all are driving Automatics.

Maybe its a bit different with the StickShift, no TRS could effect how the PCM reflects on the GPR.
Hey Will....er-ummm Keith,
It may be that you have OBD1 and the 96 & up have OBD 2...not sure bout the trans though.
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  #24  
Old 03-25-2011, 03:07 PM
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I've never noticed anything different wiring wise on our trucks between obd1 and obd2.
Am i missing something there?

Far as I could tell, OBD1 and OBD2 in our trucks was just a difference in programing. And with the chip, i have updated programing. mrk12 or whatever it is.
Gonna write it on my hand next time I read it.

To bad you so busy, Woulda been nice to chat with you when I called the other day.
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1994 F250 XLT 4x4 Standard Cab - T-444E Direct Injection Turbo Diesel, 5 SPD M/T Z/F S5-420, Rosewood 160cc Stage 1's, PHP Tuner, 6637, Short Throw Shift Kit, Valair Kevlar/Ceramic, 140V IDM, T-500, 285/75/16 Cooper Discoverer ATR. Steyr C9-A1.
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  #25  
Old 03-25-2011, 03:13 PM
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Yep, the PCM controls the GPR so it would be in the programming if I'm getting it right.

You called? Sorry I missed it, the phone is ringing off the hook lately. This is the first down time I've had in a while...well, except for a little trip to S. America . I had to get some I&I vs. R&R.......if you get my drift hehe!
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  #26  
Old 03-25-2011, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda_jim View Post
I edited my last post with this in case it was missed.

Ref: cali engine w/ a shunt.

DTC P1395 or P1396 will set on the bank that is reading less than 39 amps.
Does this mean the PCM monitors the amp draw vs voltage??
Yes, cali engines use a shunt on each bank of glow plugs. PCM detects voltage drop across each shunt which is directly porpotional to glow plugs current draw and turns on that pesky little CEL light if out of spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn View Post
I just was thinking.
You guys all are driving Automatics.

Maybe its a bit different with the StickShift, no TRS could effect how the PCM reflects on the GPR.
I don't think the TRS has any affect on glow plug relay cycle time.
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  #27  
Old 03-25-2011, 03:39 PM
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I found a description of the Cali rig system.

California vehicles utilize a Glow Plug Monitor (GPM) system designed to locate failed glow plugs or failed wiring in the glow plug system.

Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) indicate which bank has failed glow plugs or failed glow plug wiring.

The GPM system uses two low resistance shunts. One shunt conducts the current to the glow plugs in the left cylinder head and the other shunt conducts the current for the right cylinder head. Three sensing wires measure the voltage drops across the shunts when the glow plugs are operating (the voltage drops are proportional to the current in the shunt). The voltage drops are measured after the glow plug current stabilizes (approximately 30 seconds).

Therefore, this system only checks glow plug operation when oil temperature and/or altitude conditions cause the glow plugs to stay on for 30 seconds or more and system voltage is between 11.8 and 14.0 volts.

A menu pick on the New Generation STAR (NGS) tester Key On Engine Running (KOER) Glow Plug Monitor Test allows 30 second operation of the GPM system independent of oil temperature or altitude.

The GPM also checks the added sensing wires for out of range readings. These checks indicate a shorted or open sensing wire, or a glow plug relay failure by setting DTCs. The DTCs are stored in continuous memory when a fault is determined, and the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) is illuminated on the second drive cycle if an OBD fault is detected.

The glow plug relay coil is checked for opens or shorts as part of Comprehensive Component Monitoring.
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  #28  
Old 03-25-2011, 04:10 PM
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My truck shows the voltage spikes if you rev the engine (stick shift) and so does my Dad's new (to him) truck. It is a 95 F-350 5spd too.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:58 PM
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Anyone have the time to measure resistance on a Stancor relay coil? You don't have to remove any wiring just slap your ohm meter connectors across the two small wire connections on the GPR. I've tried it both ways (wires connected or not) and get the same reading on the OEM relay .. thanks.
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:59 PM
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I did the GPR indicator mod and yes, if I rev my truck rpms to a certain level the GPR will cycle on and off....I have the stancor...
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:59 PM
 
 
 
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