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1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

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Old 03-17-2011, 09:34 PM
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95 F-150 with a 89 460 Swap, no fuel

Last year I started building a new trail truck. 95 Extented Cab short box 2wd 300 E4od. I changed all the drive train and swapped the motor for an 89 460 out of an F-superduty.

I have the computer, ignition module and distributor from the donor 89. I also bought a factory 460 engine harness, computer and module from a 96 F-250 at the junk yard.

I have the truck assembled and it will not start. The truck cranks, has 36-40 psi during the initial key turn, and has spark. I had tested the injectors with a noid light and they are not getting a signal.

I am kinda lost besides tracing all the wiring. Is there a good source out there for factory manuals for this era truck? Or a good source online?
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:49 PM
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Haynes usually has pretty good wiring diagrams. If you can get a hold of a Ford EVTM (Electronic and Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual) that would be your best bet. If you can find out which pins on the PCM(s) control the injectors, you can backprobe the circuits at the PCM for injector signal to determine whether you have a wiring problem or a module problem.
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Old 03-18-2011, 12:41 AM
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The fuel injector pulses are sent by the PCM. The main input to create that signal is the PIP, aka stator in the distributor. I have seen a few cases where the PIP sent out enough signal to trigger the coil but not enough to trigger the PCM to fire off the injectors.

There is also a feature built into the PCM to not fire the injectors during cranking if the throttle position is wide open. The TPS is the feedback sensor. If the TPS output voltage is pegged near VREF the injectors will not fire.

Have you tried checking for codes? Many times there can be an issue without having a Check Engine Light on.

This site, Ford Fuel Injection , has tons of info as well as some EVTM info you can view/download.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:32 AM
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Just another thought, is the pcm getting an rpm signal? You may have a bad cam or crank sensor.
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Just another thought, is the pcm getting an rpm signal? You may have a bad cam or crank sensor.
I believe the PIP is responsible for that signal in his setup. Hell, I'd throw a distributor at it just because the PIP sensor was at fault in my 460 swap. The truck started and ran, but it had NO power at all. Swapped the distributor with a used unit and had power galore.
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mturnbull50 View Post
Just another thought, is the pcm getting an rpm signal? You may have a bad cam or crank sensor.
That is the PIP sensor that rla2005 talked about above.
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mturnbull50 View Post
Just another thought, is the pcm getting an rpm signal? You may have a bad cam or crank sensor.
There is no cam or crankshaft position sensor per se. The implied crankshaft/cam position comes from the PIP, aka stator, in the distributor.

For reference: Ford Fuel Injection » Stator (RPM)

I did overlook asking if you have supply voltage to the injectors? If the supply was missing there would be no way to trigger the noid or the injectors even if the PCM was pulsing the injectors to ground.

Ryan does have some pull-outs from various years of truck EVTM manuals: Ford Fuel Injection » Truck EVTM’s
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:10 AM
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The 1989 Ignition is in the Ryan link above and here is the 1996 Ignition system below.
I would like to know what systems you are using, you said you have the whole 1989 and 1996 wiring and computers but I did not see what you installed on the 1995 truck.
What distributor did you use?
What color is the ICM you used?
What Computer (PCM) did you use?
What wiring harness did you use?
Is any of the wiring from the 1995 truck?
What size engine was in the 1995 truck before you started?
Have you check continuity from the ICM PIP pin to the PIP pin at the PCM plug?
If so what PCM pin number did you use?
The 96 & 89 PCM PIP pin is #56.

1996 wiring diagram:
Click the image to open in full size.
/
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:27 AM
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Thanks everyone, I am going to try to do more checking on it today. I have a haynes manual, but was looking for something more in depth.

The 89 motor rand before I pulled it from the truck. ( I drove it. ) Right now I am using the factory 95 wiring harness connected to the 96 460 engine harness with the 89 Distributor. I have the 89 PCM & ICM, along with the 96 PCM & ICM. I have tried different combinations of both. The 89 ICM is Gray and the 96 is Black. What is the difference between them? Does the PCM ever control the ignition? I think the computers should be basically the same, I think, except for the 96 being an E4OD and the 89 being a ZF.
I have a test light and a Multimeter to test the circuits with. Do I need anything else?

The 95 initially had a 300 and E4OD.
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2005 F250 4X4 XLT Lariet 6.0
1996 F250 Crew Short 460 5spd 60 10.25 37's
1986 F350 Crew dually 2wd 460 4spd For Sale
1995 F-150 460EFI ZF 203/205 60, 10.25 40" TSL's
1976 F150 2wd 360 Np435
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudman View Post
I am using the factory 95 wiring harness connected to the 96 460 engine harness with the 89 Distributor.
The 95 initially had a 300 and E4OD.
Can you tell us a little more on how you connected 89 Distributor to 96 engine harness and then to a 4.9L 95 harness and to what year 460 computer. Or are you using a 4.9L 95 computer?

Also was this 460, computer and wiring harness from a California truck or a 49 states truck?
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:20 PM
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96 engine harness is from a SEFI not a mass Air truck.

The 96 harness attached to the 95 harness at the square plug by the underhood fuse box. the 89 Distributor pluged directly into the 96 harness. (same plug) According to different online parts stores, all 460 EFI distributors should be the same.

I have tried using the 96 PCM & ICM together and then the 89 PCM & ICM together. The 96 parts came from a truck at the junk yard.
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1996 F250 Crew Short 460 5spd 60 10.25 37's
1986 F350 Crew dually 2wd 460 4spd For Sale
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1976 F150 2wd 360 Np435
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:03 PM
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I take it that you are using the 1996 Computer.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:43 PM
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I have tried using both of the 460 computers at different times. From what I have found, they look like they are pinned the same. Except the 96 computer also has the ability to run a E4OD which I am not using.
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1976 F150 2wd 360 Np435
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:37 PM
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I started checking the wiring and the PIP connections at the Distributor, PCM and ICM all had at the most 1 ohm of resistance.

I started checking the path for the IDM and noticed that it is set up for a Black ICM according to fordfuelinjection.

Does the computer care which one is used? The gray or Black module? I have connected both the black and gray not knowing there was a difference.

What is the purpose of the IDM?

Could I have hurt the computer? I am going to have the modules tested at the auto parts store since the only black one I have is from the junkyard. Does the computer control the ignition at all?
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1986 F350 Crew dually 2wd 460 4spd For Sale
1995 F-150 460EFI ZF 203/205 60, 10.25 40" TSL's
1976 F150 2wd 360 Np435
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:46 PM
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From about 1993 1/2 Ford Trucks and newer Computers need the Black ICM. Most diagrams show 1994 and newer.
It all depends if you have a start wire running from the starter solenoid to the Gray ICM or not.
All 1994 and newer trucks and maybe 1993 1/2 do not have the start wire.

The IDM (Ignition Diagnostic Monitor) is the way the computer checks on the Ignition system. The 1993 and older trucks got the IDM from the Ignition Coil through a resister and the 1994 trucks and newer get the IDM from the Black ICM.

Your problem is either you do not have a complete path from the PIP or the TPS to the Computer. If the TPS pin at the computer is around 4.5 VDC to 5 VDC the injectors will not fire. As you know the injectors will not fire either if the PIP signal is missing also.

It sounds like you may have already ohmed out the PIP wire from the ICM or PIP sensor to the computer. You will also have to check the voltage at the TPS pin on the computer also.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:46 PM
 
 
 
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