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Old 03-09-2011, 04:40 AM
Aki_A Aki_A is offline
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Exclamation Weird buzz test?

Hi!

I have -01 powerstroke 7.3 and after engine rebuilt (low compression) it wont start, engine havent never run right when the car is have been my, but now when i do buzz test with AE it sounds like there buzz more than one injector same time... so i unplug UVCH plug on other side, and test again, i hear buzz 8time??? it should buzz 4time if other side is unplugged? so is there any other reason than shorted wiring harness? while cranking lots of white smoke=unburned fuel so maybe it now open many injector sametime and dumped fuel of wrong injector in wrong time? I test buzz test also one other idm, and same thing.

only dtc is injector 5 low to high side open... but how is it possible that AE shows that hole bank is open when i unplug other uvch connector, but still injectors will buzz 8time?

Well... i most check the wiring harness next time.

Has somebody got same problem?
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:27 AM
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SkySkiJason SkySkiJason is offline
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Wow, I can say 'been there - done that'... unfortunately for me!!

I'll try to find the thread detailing the HELL I went thru to find out my problem was UVCH/VC gaskets. If ya haven't changed them yet - its a good investment anyway. www.partsguyed.com

I had 'injector high side open' and failed buzz test on that bank - but, all (8) buzzes came from the other bank. It was loud buzz, quiet buzz, etc - the quiet buzzes were actually all (4) injectors on the 'good' bank. Passed EVERY continuity test possible - at least 100 times, literally - had (low) voltage at the injectors with KOEO, etc, etc...

Eventually, out of desperation, I grabbed an old UVCH and threw it on the truck and SOB ran again - for a little bit... Wiggling the VC connector would make it work again so I replaced VC gaskets & UVCH's and no more issues.

FWIW, my VC gaskets and UVCH's had 70k miles on them and were only unplugged ONE TIME. Since they had continuity and low voltage getting thru them - I was CERTAIN they were fine...
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:46 AM
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SkySkiJason SkySkiJason is offline
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http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/93...ing-yet-5.html

Here's a link to my drama... This is the page I figured it all out, but the rest of that thread details what I learned along the way. We have some very, very smart folks here on FTE!! I owe most of what I've learned about my PSD's to them. Thanks AGAIN FTE!
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:15 AM
Aki_A Aki_A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkySkiJason View Post
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/93...ing-yet-5.html

Here's a link to my drama... This is the page I figured it all out, but the rest of that thread details what I learned along the way. We have some very, very smart folks here on FTE!! I owe most of what I've learned about my PSD's to them. Thanks AGAIN FTE!
Ok, thanks

here is the results:

I have also new UVCH harness.

So is it normal that if I unplug other UVCH connector i will hear 1+8buzz?

Injector between ground:

#1=na
#2=na
#3=na
#4=na
#5=na
#6=na
#7=na
#8=na

Injector resistance(measured of idm connector):

#1=2.8ohm
#2=2.9ohm
#3=2.7ohm
#4=2.9ohm
#5=na (i think the plug is disconnected inside valvecover)
#6=2.6ohm
#7=2.9ohm
#8=2.7ohm

Injector resistance between other injectors

#1->#3 =5.2ohm
#1->#7 =5.3ohm

#2->#4 =5.5ohm
#2->#6 =5.4ohm

#6->#8 =5.4ohm
#8->#2 =5.6ohm

Is this normal that there is conductivity between each bank injectors + wires? i got same result when i test those of UVCH harness plug outside valvecover?


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Old 03-09-2011, 01:50 PM
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I ultimately needed new VC gaskets as well. Actually, they were likely the biggest part of my problem from the get-go...

The fact that you don't have continuity on #5 means somethings up. Have ya pulled VC's again yet?

Somewhere in that thread you'll see the Ford Service Manual's directions for what to do for that code. My internet connection is slooooooooooooow right now, or I'd find it for ya!
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aki_A View Post
So is it normal that if I unplug other UVCH connector i will hear 1+8buzz?

Is this normal that there is conductivity between each bank injectors + wires? i got same result when i test those of UVCH harness plug outside valvecover?


Yes, sometimes the buzz will affect the unplugged bank - per Jonathon at Swamps...

I'm telling you I had textbook PERFECT conductivity between everything - I mean everything. I had low voltage (per the manual's test) with KOEO at the injectors - but the damn thing would not pass a buzz test (HIGH voltage).

Ya might try swapping VC gaskets from side to side and see if that helps? No need to replace VC's until ya pass a buzz test and hear that sucka RUN again!

Where are you located? perhaps there's an FTE brother nearby who could offer some support??
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:38 PM
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He's in Finland!!! Don't know how many brothers we got over there.
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:11 AM
Aki_A Aki_A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhcobra View Post
He's in Finland!!! Don't know how many brothers we got over there.
We have many powerstroke owners

Could bad PCM cause weird buzz test?
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Old 03-15-2011, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aki_A View Post
We have many powerstroke owners

Could bad PCM cause weird buzz test?
Not likely. Try swapping UVCH and VC gaskets from one side to the other and see if your problem changes.

Here's stuff from my thread for you to look at...

http://x6qqiq.blu.livefilestore.com/...ing%202000.jpg

http://x6qqiq.blu.livefilestore.com/...138%202000.jpg


2001 PCED On Board Diagnostics II Diesel
SECTION 5: Pinpoint Tests
Procedure revision date: 05/13/2004

NA: Injector Driver Circuit Operation
Introduction
NA: Pinpoint Tests

Output Functions High Side Drive Outputs (Right and Left Bank) — The high side driver output function is to distribute energy to the proper bank based on cylinder identification (CID) and provide regulated current to the unit injectors, based on fuel delivery command signal (FDCS) from the injector driver module (IDM) internal 115 V supply. The injection timing and duration is commanded by the powertrain control module (PCM) in the FDCS.

Low Side Drive Outputs — The low side drive outputs control the sequencing (firing order) of the engine based on the CID and FDCS inputs.
WARNING: RED-STRIPED WIRES CARRY 115 V DC. SEVERE ELECTRICAL SHOCK MAY BE RECEIVED. DO NOT PIERCE.
CAUTION: Do not pierce engine electrical wires or damage to the harness may occur.
Detection/Management
Note: Special instructions required to clear IDM trouble codes (1995/1996 model year).
Key on.
Record IDM trouble codes stored in KOEO ON-DEMAND SELF TEST and KOEO INJECTOR ELECTRICAL SELF TEST modes.
Access RETRIEVE/CLEAR CONTINUOUS DTCs from scan tool menu to clear IDM trouble codes from memory.
Record any codes displayed. (P1111 may be the only code displayed.)
Push CLEAR ALL button on scan tool.
IDM trouble codes are now cleared from memory. Repeat the KOEO On-Demand Self Test and KOEO Injector Electrical Self Test. Any IDM codes that reappear are IDM hard faults. If no IDM codes reappear, then the fault is an intermittent IDM fault.
The IDM is capable of detecting individual injector open and shorts to either ground or battery while the engine is running. It is also capable of detecting right or left bank high side opens or shorts to ground. A special on-demand buzz electrical self test will also allow the operator to enable all injector solenoids while the engine is off to verify circuit operation. IDM detected trouble codes will not be transmitted if the EF line is not functioning; however, the engine will not shut down due to a non-functional EF line.
If a low side short to ground condition is determined by the IDM, this condition will be transmitted to the PCM via the EF signal. The PCM will enable the CHECK ENGINE light and command minimum fuel to the affected bank.



This is from the Ford factory service manual - this is what 'techs' are supposed to do for the given DTC's...

NA20 DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTCs) P1294 AND P1293: CHECK FOR VOLTAGE ON HIGH SIDE CIRCUIT
DTCs P1294 and P1293 indicate an open circuit exists on the high side circuit between the IDM and the injectors. The following table lists the circuits to inspect while performing these pinpoint tests, based on the DTC retrieved during the KOEO On-Demand and Injector Electrical Self Tests.

DTC High Side Injector Bank
P1294 878 (PK/YE) Left
P1293 1087 (OG) Right
Key off.
Disconnect the connector on the bank with the code.
Key on, engine off.
Measure voltage on the suspect high side circuit Pin E on the injector vehicle harness connectors and battery ground.
Is voltage greater than 1 volt?
Yes No
GO to NA21 . GO to NA24 .

NA21 CHECK INJECTOR RESISTANCE
Key off.
Suspect injector valve cover connectors disconnected.
Install Glow Plug Injector Adapter 014-00935 or equivalent.
Measure resistance between high side and low side injector terminals on the adapter tool.
Is resistance less than 5 ohms?
Yes No
Fault may be intermittent. GO to NA15 . GO to NA22 .

NA22 CHECK HARNESS FOR OPEN
Remove valve cover.
Disconnect injector harness connector.
Measure resistance between injector connector and exterior gasket connector.
Is resistance less than 5 ohms?
Yes No
REPLACE injector. RESTORE system. CLEAR DTCs and RETEST. GO to NA23 .

NA23 DETERMINE WHETHER GASKET OR UVC HARNESS HAS FAILED
Disconnect UVC harness from gasket.
Measure resistance across each contact in the gasket.
Is each resistance reading less than 5 ohms?
Yes No
REPLACE UVC harness. RESTORE system. CLEAR DTCs and RETEST. REPLACE valve cover gasket. RESTORE system. CLEAR DTCs and RETEST.

NA24 CHECK FOR OPEN IN HIGH SIDE CIRCUIT
Key off.
Disconnect IDM harness connector.
Both connectors on the bank with the code disconnected.
Measure resistance between suspect high side circuit at the IDM connector and Pin C and both suspect injector connectors.
Are both resistance readings less than 5 ohms?
Yes No
Fault may be intermittent. GO to NA15 . REPAIR open in high side circuit. RESTORE system. CLEAR DTCs and RETEST.
__________________

NA29 DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTCs) P1295 AND P1296
DTCs P1295 and P1296 indicate that more than one fault exists on the right or left bank. A short and open on both the low side and high side can exist on the bank with the DTC.

DTC BANK
P1295 Right Bank
P1296 Left Bank
Disconnect IDM harness connector.
Measure resistance between each injector circuit one by one and battery ground from the IDM harness connector.
Are all circuits greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
GO to NA30 . If low side short was found, GO to NA1 to find short, then RETURN to this step. If high side short was found, GO to NA16 , then RETURN to this step.

NA30 CHECK FOR SHORT TO B+
Key on, engine off.
Measure voltage of each injector circuit one by one between IDM harness connector and battery ground.
Key off.
Was voltage present on any circuit?
Yes No
GO to NA31 . If low side short was found, GO to NA6 , then RETURN to this step. If high side short was found, GO to NA16 , then RETURN to this step.

NA31 CHECK FOR HIGH SIDE CIRCUIT SHORTED TOGETHER
Measure resistance between high side circuits from the IDM harness connector Pins 23 and 24.
Is resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
GO to NA32 . REPAIR short between both high side circuits. RESTORE system. CLEAR DTCs and RETEST.

NA32 CHECK FOR OPEN CIRCUIT
Disconnect all four valve cover connectors on both banks.
Measure resistance between valve cover connector and IDM connector on all injector high side and low side circuits.
Are any circuits greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
REPAIR open in suspect circuit. RESTORE system. CLEAR DTCs and RETEST. GO to NA33 .

NA33 CHECK FOR OPEN UNDER VALVE COVER
Using Glow Plug Injector Adapter 418-F221 or equivalent, measure resistance between high side and low side of every injector circuit through the valve cover.
Are any injector circuits greater than 5 ohms?
Yes No
GO to NA12 . RECONNECT everything, CLEAR continuous DTCs and RERUN KOEO Injector Electrical Self Test and KOEO On-Demand Self Test. If DTC P1295 or P1296 reappears, REPLACE IDM.



P1291 — INJ High side # 1 (right) short to grd. or B+ Short circuit, faulty IDM
P1292 — INJ High side # 2 (left) short to grd. or B+ Short circuit, faulty IDM
P1293 — INJ High side open bank No. 1 (right) Open circuit, faulty IDM
P1294 — INJ High side open bank No. 2 (left) Open circuit, faulty IDM
P1295 a, b INJ Multiple faults on bank No. 1 (right) Miswired connector or harness, short to ground
P1296 a, b INJ Multiple faults on bank No. 2 (left) Miswired connector or harness, short to ground
P1297 — INJ High sides shorted together Shorted wires, faulty IDM
P1298 — PCED IDM failure Internal IDM failure
P1316 a, b IDM Injector circuit/IDM codes detected Injector circuit failure/IDM codes detected
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:57 PM
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I'm headed home tonight and taking a multimeter to these points!

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Old 03-21-2011, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aki_A View Post
...
So is it normal that if I unplug other UVCH connector i will hear 1+8buzz?
...[/u][/u]
Yes. The initial buzz will sound all 8 injector solenoids at the same time with equal intensity. Then, it will sound them ALL again 8 more times. However, it will soft buzz 7 and hard buzz the last one in order of cylinder number. So, for instance it will go like this:
  1. Hard Buzz all 8 injectors
  2. Hard Buzz #1 and soft buzz #2 thru #8
  3. Hard Buzz #2 and soft buzz #1, 3-8
  4. Hard Buzz #3 and soft buzz #1,2,4-8
  5. etc

So, if you unplug bank #1 (right side) then you will hear the loud initial buzz of all injectors, then a soft buzz followed by a loud buzz and it would continue like that for the remainder of the cylinders.

The buzz test is performed this way to help protect the IDM because it's not good to have a completely open circuit during the buzz test procedure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aki_A View Post

Injector resistance(measured of idm connector):

#1=2.8ohm
#2=2.9ohm
#3=2.7ohm
#4=2.9ohm
#5=na (i think the plug is disconnected inside valvecover)
#6=2.6ohm
#7=2.9ohm
#8=2.7ohm

[/u][/u]
Agreed. Your problem is inside the valve cover somewhere. Could be one of 3 things. Bad connection inside the gasket itself, bad connection between the gasket and solenoid or bad solenoid (this last one is not very likely since they still usually show some ohm readings even when bad). So, I lean towards a bad wire or bad gasket. When you take off the valve cover, unplug the harness on the inside of the gasket and measure the ohms between the #5 and #6 pins (counting from front to back). If you get a good ohm reading then disconnect the exterior harness at the valve cover and measure the ohms on pin #6 from outside to inside. If that gasket is bad then you will get a "n/a" or infinity reading there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aki_A View Post
...

Injector resistance between other injectors

#1->#3 =5.2ohm
#1->#7 =5.3ohm

#2->#4 =5.5ohm
#2->#6 =5.4ohm

#6->#8 =5.4ohm
#8->#2 =5.6ohm

Is this normal that there is conductivity between each bank injectors + wires? i got same result when i test those of UVCH harness plug outside valvecover?
Yes, if your IDM is plugged into the harness then you will get conductivity between injectors as well.

Lastly, your high side open on #5 could appear even with bank 1 unplugged if you haven't cleared your codes yet.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Shake-N-Bake; 03-21-2011 at 04:41 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 03-22-2011, 05:33 AM
Aki_A Aki_A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gchavez View Post
Yes. The initial buzz will sound all 8 injector solenoids at the same time with equal intensity. Then, it will sound them ALL again 8 more times. However, it will soft buzz 7 and hard buzz the last one in order of cylinder number. So, for instance it will go like this:
  1. Hard Buzz all 8 injectors
  2. Hard Buzz #1 and soft buzz #2 thru #8
  3. Hard Buzz #2 and soft buzz #1, 3-8
  4. Hard Buzz #3 and soft buzz #1,2,4-8
  5. etc

So, if you unplug bank #1 (right side) then you will hear the loud initial buzz of all injectors, then a soft buzz followed by a loud buzz and it would continue like that for the remainder of the cylinders.

The buzz test is performed this way to help protect the IDM because it's not good to have a completely open circuit during the buzz test procedure.



Agreed. Your problem is inside the valve cover somewhere. Could be one of 3 things. Bad connection inside the gasket itself, bad connection between the gasket and solenoid or bad solenoid (this last one is not very likely since they still usually show some ohm readings even when bad). So, I lean towards a bad wire or bad gasket. When you take off the valve cover, unplug the harness on the inside of the gasket and measure the ohms between the #5 and #6 pins (counting from front to back). If you get a good ohm reading then disconnect the exterior harness at the valve cover and measure the ohms on pin #6 from outside to inside. If that gasket is bad then you will get a "n/a" or infinity reading there.



Yes, if your IDM is plugged into the harness then you will get conductivity between injectors as well.

Lastly, your high side open on #5 could appear even with bank 1 unplugged if you haven't cleared your codes yet.

Hope this helps.
Thanks a lot

This "
  1. Hard Buzz all 8 injectors
  2. Hard Buzz #1 and soft buzz #2 thru #8
  3. Hard Buzz #2 and soft buzz #1, 3-8
  4. Hard Buzz #3 and soft buzz #1,2,4-8
  5. etc" is the information what i have been looking for
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Old 03-22-2011, 05:33 AM
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