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Old 03-08-2011, 10:23 PM
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First batch with biodiesel

Just wanted to make sure i am on the right track here.

i am making a 17.5 gal batch. it is my first batch.

i let the methoxide and oil mix for about 1.5 hours. finshed circulating at 9:30pm. Should i take a sample off the top tomorrow around 10am and do a 3/27 test to see if i can drain the glycerin and continue to the wash?


Thanks guys!!
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Berardi View Post
Just wanted to make sure i am on the right track here.

i am making a 17.5 gal batch. it is my first batch.

i let the methoxide and oil mix for about 1.5 hours. finshed circulating at 9:30pm. Should i take a sample off the top tomorrow around 10am and do a 3/27 test to see if i can drain the glycerin and continue to the wash?


Thanks guys!!
First off, what was your processing temperature and titration #, (BTW, Naoh or KOH?).

Usually, 3/27 is taken at the when you think it is close, but do not shut down processor yet. Pull a sample, let it settle (5-10 minutes), take your 3 ml of settled bio and shake with 27 ml of methanol. After 15-20 minutes, it should be clear with no droplets in the bottom. Very important that the 3/27 be performed at 68F. Any warmer will give a false pass, and any cooler will give a false fail.

After you pass 3/27, then shut down processor. For me, my processing temperature starts at 140F, usually pass 3/27 in 1 hour 15 minutes, processor is shut down at about 1.5 hours run time, settle 1 hour, drain glycerol, proceeed to wash.(I use KOH)
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by binuya View Post
First off, what was your processing temperature and titration #, (BTW, Naoh or KOH?).

Usually, 3/27 is taken at the when you think it is close, but do not shut down processor yet. Pull a sample, let it settle (5-10 minutes), take your 3 ml of settled bio and shake with 27 ml of methanol. After 15-20 minutes, it should be clear with no droplets in the bottom. Very important that the 3/27 be performed at 68F. Any warmer will give a false pass, and any cooler will give a false fail.

After you pass 3/27, then shut down processor. For me, my processing temperature starts at 140F, usually pass 3/27 in 1 hour 15 minutes, processor is shut down at about 1.5 hours run time, settle 1 hour, drain glycerol, proceeed to wash.(I use KOH)
alvin so you keep heat on it and keep it circulating even after you heat the water up? here is what i had

Titration - 4ml
Temperature outside 40F
KOh

Let me summerize what you did real quick to see if i understand -

1. Titration
2. Heat oil to 130F (circulating Pump on)
3. Mix Meth and KOh (circulating pump on)
4. Keep heat and circulation on the entire time
5. Test 3/27 after 1.25 hours
6. If pass let pump run 15 more min and then turn off heat and pump and let everything settle for one hour and drain glycerol
7. wash

This being said...if you pass the test and then go to drain the glycerol...how do you know you have all the glycerol out?
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Berardi View Post
alvin so you keep heat on it and keep it circulating even after you heat the water up? here is what i had

Titration - 4ml
Temperature outside 40F
KOh

Let me summerize what you did real quick to see if i understand -

1. Titration
2. Heat oil to 130F (circulating Pump on)
3. Mix Meth and KOh (circulating pump on)
4. Keep heat and circulation on the entire time
5. Test 3/27 after 1.25 hours
6. If pass let pump run 15 more min and then turn off heat and pump and let everything settle for one hour and drain glycerol
7. wash

This being said...if you pass the test and then go to drain the glycerol...how do you know you have all the glycerol out?
#4. Do not keep heat on. Explosion hazard. If you are at 130F when you are metering in the methoxide, you should be fine. I usually go to 140F, shut down heat, then meter in the methoxide.

#6. The reason I usually go to 1.5 hours is because I test 3/27 at 1.25 hours, but keep the processor pump running while I wait for the sample to settle for the 3/27 test.

You will know when you drain most of the glycerol out. Glycerol looks like syrupy coffee. It will quickly change to golden biodiesel. At your titration level, figure on glycerin quantitiy being about the same volume as your methanol input (4.25 gallons or so?). You will never get every speck of it out, and assuming you will water wash, I suggest your first wash cycle to be a static wash. Meaning, after transferring your bio to wash tank, slowly pour a few gallons of warm water into it, let settle 30 minutes to an hour, and drain. Wouldn't hurt to repeat, then proceed to what ever your normal wash routine would be. Keep in mind, slow, easy, and gentle for the first few washes to avoid creating an emulsion. Warm water is best, I wash at 100F-120F.

BTW Phil, what type of processor and wash system do you have? Good luck with this, and let us know how you are progressing. If you run into problems washing, I've run into enough problems to know how to get out of them.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:55 AM
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thanks brotha good info right there.

i did the 3/27 test and it came back with no floating oil at all. good sign!

i will post pics of my setup in a min or two, i just transfered to the wash tank. going to go get some hot water and wash it up without bubble rock first then i guiess ill do the bubble rock...17.5 gall of oil, im going to do 5 gal of hot water.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Berardi View Post
thanks brotha good info right there.

i did the 3/27 test and it came back with no floating oil at all. good sign!

i will post pics of my setup in a min or two, i just transfered to the wash tank. going to go get some hot water and wash it up without bubble rock first then i guiess ill do the bubble rock...17.5 gall of oil, im going to do 5 gal of hot water.
On the 3/27, an under reacted batch will show at the bottom. Usually as a bead of oil.

When you are doing your wash, for the first few cycles, it will be opaque looking, like orange juice. This is normal. Just keep washing, settling,and changing out the water until it begins to darken and clear up. At this point your about 1/2 way through your wash cycles.

Good luck and looking forward to your processor pics.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:16 PM
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Sounds like your on the right track to going bio. Only tried water wash once, got an emulsion. Don and others persuaded me to go with Magnesol Dry wash and never went back...
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:11 AM
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please elaborate on the magnesol..where do i get it. its weird i was actually reading an article on it. a step by step would be nice.

got back from meeting tonight and the bio was bubbelin away in the still, has a real real dark amber color..hope thats ok.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:29 AM
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alright picture time -

  • Picture of the stills, far right is primary, left one is wash. blue drum is for completed fuel, going to switch to plastic to help lessen condensation.

[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.[/IMG]

  • Chemical shelf..still needs organizing.

[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.[/IMG]
  • was tired of moving the 55 gal drum around so i quick built this dolly...works great


[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.[/IMG]
  • first 3/27 with first batch....


[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.[/IMG]


If anyone could teach me a little about how to use the dry wash that would be great!!
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:33 AM
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Good looking set up there Phil. And yes, your wash sounds like it's going well. I see that you are looking into drywashing too. I will be doing that as well in the near future when I complete my new reactor. Just a quick heads up though. Master your processing first. I have seen more than a couple people jump into drywashing before mastering proper processing only to have fuel related vehicle issues. But you seem to be headed in the
right direction. Best of luck, and keep us posted.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:56 AM
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thanks! took out the water today just makes me nervous until i see that little bit come through the tube and i quick shut off the drain vaulve. keeps looking beter and better tho. thanks for the tips.
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushmore X View Post
Sounds like your on the right track to going bio. Only tried water wash once, got an emulsion. Don and others persuaded me to go with Magnesol Dry wash and never went back...
After making bio for 7 years I've NEVER met anyone that tried Magnesol and went back to water wash.........not one........



Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Berardi View Post
please elaborate on the magnesol..where do i get it. its weird i was actually reading an article on it. a step by step would be nice.

got back from meeting tonight and the bio was bubbelin away in the still, has a real real dark amber color..hope thats ok.

If you do a forum search for Magnesol you'll get PAGES of results.

Here are a few:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/75...sh-my-bio.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/55...w-me-more.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/58...d-filters.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/62...-your-bio.html


Lot's of info in this forum....................
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:44 PM
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lol thanks don, i ignored my first responsibility to search first. sorry! thanks for the links
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:49 PM
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No problem at all Phil. We're all here to help each other out!
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:49 PM
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That's one thing that's been nice with this forum, lot's of people willing to help others out with GOOD information...
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:49 PM
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