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Old 03-06-2011, 10:10 PM
CopperSatin CopperSatin is offline
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Romeo vs Windsor on 2000 Expedition 4.6

I got an 8th digit Vin of 6 and Ford fleet says that according to the entire Vin # they are kicking up to be Michigan Trucks Assembly Plant. That is suppose to be a Romeo engine right?

I ordered a long block in for a customer from Marshall Engines out of Nebraska based on the Vin.... checked and double checked all the info in the paper catalog and by my computer info. Gave Marshall the entire Vin code and verified with them that this was the correct engine, but my customer called me today saying that the valve covers aren't the same, the cam hold downs aren't the same and the timing cover bolts are different. Needless to say he is pretty aggreviated right now as he has about 24 hrs into this project.

I have to go out to his house tomorrow (Hell for breakfast Monday) and see what is up.

Any ideas or info would be much appreciated

This is a very cool website and I am very happy I found it today....it is going on my favorites tab.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:38 PM
YoGeorge YoGeorge is offline
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The engine code for the Romeo 4.6 is "W", really (8th digit in the VIN). I have a Romeo engine in my 2002 E150 van. I believe the Windsor engine code is "6". Any thinking person would assume that a "W" meant Windsor, but it does not. (Any thinking person would also wonder why the hell Ford has 2 different 4.6 engines that are functionally so similar.)

I had the Romeo problem with the early PI cylinder heads and got a new pair of heads out of the deal under warranty, so I'm very aware it is a Romeo engine.

Romeo has 11 valve cover bolts, and a 6 bolt crank (flywheel)
Windsor has 13 bolt valve covers and an 8 bolt crank (flywheel)

Welcome to the forum.
Good luck,
George
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:54 PM
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hodges710 hodges710 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoGeorge View Post
The engine code for the Romeo 4.6 is "W", really (8th digit in the VIN). I have a Romeo engine in my 2002 E150 van. I believe the Windsor engine code is "6". Any thinking person would assume that a "W" meant Windsor, but it does not. (Any thinking person would also wonder why the hell Ford has 2 different 4.6 engines that are functionally so similar.)

I had the Romeo problem with the early PI cylinder heads and got a new pair of heads out of the deal under warranty, so I'm very aware it is a Romeo engine.

Romeo has 11 valve cover bolts, and a 6 bolt crank (flywheel)
Windsor has 13 bolt valve covers and an 8 bolt crank (flywheel)

Welcome to the forum.
Good luck,
George
Besides the bolt count for the valve covers and flywheel, are there any pros/cons between the two. I have the Romeo 4.6 (W) and I am very happy with it for what I use it for.
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:07 PM
YoGeorge YoGeorge is offline
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Originally Posted by hodges710 View Post
Besides the bolt count for the valve covers and flywheel, are there any pros/cons between the two. I have the Romeo 4.6 (W) and I am very happy with it for what I use it for.
There are some other differences (you can do a search on Google for some of the details) but functionally I don't think that either is a "better" engine. Again, I think it is pretty stupid and pointless for Ford to have designed two 4.6 engines that are so similar but yet with some differences.

The Romeo was generally used in more cars (Mustangs and Crown Vics) and the Windsor was more often used in pickups, but most vans and Explorers had Romeos. (The aluminum block 4.6's were used in Explorers and some were found in Expeditions as well--all aluminum block motors were Romeos.)

There are a lot of vans, Crown Vics, and Town Car limos that have gone 300-500,000 miles on Romeo motors.

George
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:02 AM
CopperSatin CopperSatin is offline
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Thanks for your response and welcome YoGeorge. Upon further looking I found a link thru this site that documented the differences with drawings and measurements, and you are right about 2 things... The 11 bolt vs 13 bolt with a dog-ear off set notch on the valve cover for the windsor, and the point regarding Ford's curious decision to have 2 different set ups for the 4.6. Your info and these print outs I copied will be very helpfull tomorrow when I go see this guy.

Thanks again : )

Side note: The customer told me he had a 6 bolt fly when I asked him, and he got this info from the Ford dealer when he gave them the Vin# when pricing out an engine from Ford. This would make it the Romeo. I will find out tomorrow for sure.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:36 AM
dr. sleep dr. sleep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoGeorge View Post
The engine code for the Romeo 4.6 is "W", really (8th digit in the VIN). I have a Romeo engine in my 2002 E150 van. I believe the Windsor engine code is "6". Any thinking person would assume that a "W" meant Windsor, but it does not. (Any thinking person would also wonder why the hell Ford has 2 different 4.6 engines that are functionally so similar.)

I had the Romeo problem with the early PI cylinder heads and got a new pair of heads out of the deal under warranty, so I'm very aware it is a Romeo engine.

Romeo has 11 valve cover bolts, and a 6 bolt crank (flywheel)
Windsor has 13 bolt valve covers and an 8 bolt crank (flywheel)

Welcome to the forum.
Good luck,
George
This is partly correct. The 8th digit VIN does not reliably tell you engine site. Best bet is to count the valve cover bolts as you stated. For example, my 8th digit VIN is a "6", which would lead you to believe a Windsor engine, but, in fact, I have 11 bolt valve covers, and engine id tag code tells me it is a Romeo.
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Old 07-15-2012, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by dr. sleep View Post
This is partly correct. The 8th digit VIN does not reliably tell you engine site. Best bet is to count the valve cover bolts as you stated. For example, my 8th digit VIN is a "6", which would lead you to believe a Windsor engine, but, in fact, I have 11 bolt valve covers, and engine id tag code tells me it is a Romeo.
Then someone change some stuff then before you got it then "W" is Romeo no matter what the count of boly on valve cover is.
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Old 07-15-2012, 01:38 PM
dr. sleep dr. sleep is offline
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Then someone change some stuff then before you got it then "W" is Romeo no matter what the count of boly on valve cover is.
No one changed anything. I bought the vehicle brand new from dealership . . . I am the one and only owner of the vehicle. It is a 2000 Ford Expedition XLT. 8th digit of VIN is "6". However, there are 11 bolts on each valve cover. Plus the driver's side valve cover shows "0G846AA", which indicates the engine broadcast code is VIN 6, Romeo plant, 6 bolt flywheel . .. . see here: PowerTorque® Remanufactured DFXF - Long Block Engine | O'Reilly Auto Parts
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Old 07-15-2012, 01:41 PM
dr. sleep dr. sleep is offline
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Just check that website link above. Then read the details of the description from O'Reily's. It states, VIN 6 . . . . Romeo plant . . . 6 bolt flywheel. This pretty much proves that at least some of the VIN 6, 4.6L's came from Romeo plant with 6 bolt flywheels, 11 bolt valve covers, and all the other specs of Romeo 4.6L
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:03 PM
YoGeorge YoGeorge is offline
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Yup, I just found the following article which contains the paragraph:

"You may notice some surprises when you read over them. We were surprised to see that the Expedition had a PI Windsor motor in ’99, a NPI Romeo in ’00, and a PI Romeo in ’01. And we were even more surprised to discover that there were PI Windsor motors in the ’01-’04 F150 Super crew pickups and that they came with a Romeo VIN code, especially since there weren’t supposed to be any 4.6L Windsors built after 2000."

Link to the article:
Rebuilding The Ford 4.6L: Engine Builder

So the serial number codes were NOT without exception and you should always check the specs of your engine just to be sure what you have. Again, I am befuddled as to why Ford thought it made any sense to build two engines that were so similar, but allowed there to be differences between them that did NOT make for any major power or durability differences (such as a car vs truck application).

This just seems so stupid to me... (Kind of like Ford having the 351W, the 351C, and the 351M engines that were all different from one another in the old days....or their various iterations of 427, 428, and 429 V8's...WTF?)

George
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:03 PM
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