Ok, so I was doing some thinking/daydreaming ( I know it's a dangerous thing to do ) mostly about my 38 COE Firetruck 101" wheelbase
this one below.




Thinking about the possibility of swapping the MH components from this truck 41-47 COE under the 38 firetruck.



I think its a 122" WB but I don't have the serial # or a good side shot as there is too many old trucks crammed in there.

I imagine there were some MH conversions done to the 101" wheelbase trucks? anyone know?? have pictures?

a couple of advantages
1.) I would get hydraulic brakes instead of my 38's manual brakes, although im told if they are in good order that they are fine to keep and use.

2.) 101" WB MH COE firetruck would look cool as hell.

3.) I need more projects and big trucks and parts in the driveway

I wonder if all this could be accomplished without removing the cab? would be easier removed...
I haven't looked at the trans and takeoff from a MH real close so I don't know if the rear driveshaft would have to be shortened for use of the 38's ?

This is all hypothetical and I'm sure anything can be done with enough time and money, ? I can buy the MH 41-47 truck but not sure it's affordable and the body is pretty rough so not much money to be made in any of the parts that I would not need.

Is this a bad Idea? I just look at the sad condition of the 41-47 body and wonder whats in it's future? If someone ends up with it and understands the rarity of the MH maybe its ok, if not it could end up as scrap???
I don't even think the truck has the MH badges or data plates?











on the downside, I would have to replace these treads for some mean looking traction treads



Like these here, why o why did I sell them....



Edit
Just found them again, guess they didn't work out for the guy?? I can't afford to buy them back though!!! hmmm
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218...earch=traction treads

 

Josh - The '41 to '47 COEs had the same wheelbase options as the earlier trucks as far as I know. They were 101", 134", and 158". Below is a diagram from my '46 Dealer Handbook showing the 101" wheel base model. So to my mind the M-H components of the later truck should bolt right under your '38 truck. The worst thing might be that you'd have to shorted the rear drive shaft if the donor truck is a 134" wheelbase truck.

There's no clean way to do the conversion without pulling the cab. Fact is, when M-H did the conversions originally they disassembled the whole truck. But what I've learned in my quest to reframe my F-3, all the frames of each type had jig holes that allow a template to be taken off the donor M-H frame to locate the transfer case mounting cross members perfectly on the project frame. Also, you'd have to add a hoop in the '38 frame's transmission cross member to allow the front shaft to go forward to the axle. I had some of these shaped locally out of 1/4" plate, but I can't say it'd be the same size as used on your bigger truck. The other thing different on a M-H frame, they removed rivets on the middle cross member to allow the frame to be spread a bit for installation of the transfer case cross members. They put bolts in the rivet holes when they were done.

All this could be avoided by using the '41-'47 frame, but you'd have a mix match of numbers that would in the end hurt the value of the truck. Stu

 

Josh,
What an excellent idea! The M-H parts will mostly work. You will just have to make up a rear driveshaft, because the one in the doaner truck will be two pieces, with a carrier bearing. Your truck will need one piece, from transfer case to rear end. Also, a real 1938 M-H would have had hydraulic front brakes, with a booster, tied to a contraption that pulled on the rear mechanical brakes. M-H COE's have special front springs, so you will need to put those in your truck as well.
Chuck

 

Definitly sounds do-able and something I'm sure I could manage, with you guys here to help that is!!

I don't want to use the longer 41-47 frame as I really like the short wheelbase, I think that firetruck with the tank etc on it is about 8" shorter (bumper to bumper) than an F2- F3 truck.

So when MH did these conversions they never touched the rear axles, (Just used what was there?) unless it was a tandem? did the do tandems on some trucks?

I would think maybe the rear axle from the 41-47 should just get swapped into the 38 so I would have hydraulic brakes all around??

Going to dream about this for a while, maybe see how much he wants for the MH, seems like he told me but seemed really high? especially for the body condition.

Thanks guys.

cheers

Josh

 

Josh - The only thing I think you'll find different at the rear axle are lift blocks which brought things level with the front axle. I've seen tandems, but not that I recall on a COE. Chuck would have your answer on that.

Using the donor truck's rear juice axle makes sense I guess, but to me I'd try to use the stock axle with the gizmo Chuck described. If you could find one. Since all M-H conversions started live as 2wd trucks, you could replicate your project truck and have it be exactly as M-H would have done it. Indistinguishable from an original, just converted some 70 years later. Stu

 

i said right from the beginning, you should do this! all parts will fit except rear drive shaft. it is possible that 38 already has proper trans crossmember installed for driven shaft. if not, swap them out. (this would be the only reason to remove cab, to get at rivets of x-member). you already have patterns for transfer case mounts in mh truck. if gearing is the same on both rear axles, you may be able to swap backing plates to have juice brakes. if not, swap rears for matched set. springs should fit without issues, but look tired. they will ride hard. start measuring and sizing up components. this is do-able!

 

That's right, I remember now! Thanks alot, now see what you've done Lol
I couldn't sleep last night; dreaming of big trucks

good idea on maybe swapping backing plates too. or maybe swapping the rear axle to keep them matched... but I see Stu's point of keeping it original to for originality sake. ?? hmmm Just a dreamer!

wonder how hard it would be to find and rebuild on of those rear brake controller gizmo's ??

need to go look at that 41-47 again and get some more detailed pictures of the underside.

 

M-H did build tandem COE's. Real rare today.
You would have to find a 1938 M-H conventional or COE for the brake setup. Then you would have to figure out how to rebuild the parts.
I'm all for making my trucks as authentic as possible, but in this case I think I would go with the hydraulic brake rear.
And for the record, lift blocks and brake hose drop down brackets were the only modifications done to the rear, but it was only to raise the rear enough so you could see straight ahead while driving! The front end of a conventional truck gets raised almost 3 times as high as the rear lift blocks. COE's were a little lower because of the special front springs.
Chuck

 

Thanks for the info,

Ya I could see finding a (one year only part) specific to the 38 COE and MH as being a little bit tough to find.

Have you ever seen any 38 39 40 COE's 101" WB with MH or pictures of one??

This 1940 101" dumptruck would probably look even better with the MH under it than the Firetruck.



going to go talk with the MH owner probably next week, hopefully that truck has not been gold plated since the last time I saw it!

Josh

 

That '40 is a beauty!
No, I have never seen a 101" W.B. M-H. There are pictures of them in the M-H brochures, but I can't remember ever seeing a real one.
Chuck

 

A friend of mine works in the movie business and posted a photo of a similar truck on facebook. It belongs to Disney. They have a movie set called golden oak ranch out in Newhall CA. I spent a few hours looking on google and ran across your picture finally!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2970732388623&set=a.1766175155445.2 093933.1271138014&type=1&theater¬if_t=photo_reply

 

josh, did you ever do anything with this idea? i have a set of matching front&rear axles with a transfer case. if you're ever out this way??

 

I will be selling a 1940 Ford COE with Marmon Herrington All Wheel Drive. It has a V8 95 and a power take off. E-mail me for photos & details...

 

It's unrestored.

 

chuck, you gotta call on this 40mh coe. be a good addition to your family of rigs.