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6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 2003 - 2007 F250, F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - 2009 van SPONSORED BY:

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  #1  
Old 02-15-2011, 04:55 PM
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FICM is Toast - 48 or 58 from swamps?

2004 Excursion
130,000 Miles
4 screw FICM

Been having some cold start issues, loss of MPG, and now starting to get fuel injector voltage low codes. I tested the FICM and it's toast. Registering 26 volts when running.

Need to order a new one from swamps but not sure if there is any real advantage to the 58V over the 48V. My main concern is reliability. I'm thinking 48V. Any obvious reasons for going to the 58 volts other than power increases?

Thanks,
Gregg
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2011, 07:08 PM
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The 58's can still be flaky. Stay with the 48V module.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:33 PM
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Ask what is the temperature rating of the capacitors they replace (if they did) vs. factory.
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gearloose1 View Post
Ask what is the temperature rating of the capacitors they replace (if they did) vs. factory.

Crack head.

How about coming back full addict again, we miss you.
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  #5  
Old 02-15-2011, 08:13 PM
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Rockauto.com has remaned ones for 305.00+core 100something

search rockauto discount code thats good for 5% off.

if you go to rockauto site find it in the fuel/air click the info for the part it has the place they get them from you can check them out find out what warrenty they give

just a thought
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  #6  
Old 02-15-2011, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BobsF350 View Post
Rockauto.com has remaned ones for 305.00+core 100something

search rockauto discount code thats good for 5% off.

if you go to rockauto site find it in the fuel/air click the info for the part it has the place they get them from you can check them out find out what warrenty they give

just a thought
I've found a number of places that either sell them or rebuild them for less money but I'm wondering if those places have done the research that swamps has and is upgrading the components on the FICM that are known to fail.

Hopefully this FICM will be the last one that ever goes on my EX.
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:39 PM
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" If you routinely (2+ days a week) haul
12,000 lb or heavier trailers, then stay with the 48 V FICM. If you just want to
tow your camper to the mountains or your boat to the lake on weekends, the
58 will do just fine.
The injectors were designed for 48 volts....
But they work a bunch better when run with 58 volts. "

This is from Jason at swamps diesel! They offer a yr warranty, and say they upgrade the parts! (Make of that what you will, I take it as better parts, but that is in the eye of the beholder)
When I checked my FICM it was reading good, so I didnt buy the 58vlt, YET!!!! This was their answer to my Questions about a.) if it would overheat towing. B.) if it would hurt the injectors, as they are designed to run at 48vlts.
On a side note response was quick, and there policies are right upfront on their web page!
I still may check out rockauto as that seems to be more than a fair price!
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2006 F-250 PSD, TorqShift, Leveling Kit, Toyo MT's, Rancho 7000MT shock's, Rancho Dual steering Stab's, Swamps 58vlt FICM, 4" MBRP Turbo back exhaust (with muffler).
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006lariat View Post
This is from Jason at swamps diesel! They offer a yr warranty,
The warranty covers FICM only, not consequential damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006lariat View Post
This is from Jason at swamps diesel!

and say they upgrade the parts!

Do they publish a list of part numbers used to "upgrade" so we can validate and check the specs?

Funny, on their website, there is no mention of "upgraded" parts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006lariat View Post
(Make of that what you will, I take it as better parts, but that is in the eye of the beholder)
Are technical specifications that are meticulously validated at the manufacturer's level "in the eye of the beholder"?

If so, do you buy fuel that the vendor swears is 50 cetane..... and notice that your ride just sputters on the stuff?

Eye of the beholder?

Bring on the facts.

The actual part numbers used.

The source of the parts.

The actual specifications.


I like to see where they got 470uf or better (above 50V) and 1000uf or better (above 35V) capacitors rated at 125 degrees or better (with a reasonable hour life, and reasonable specs for ripple current.)

Hint: it is not impossible... just not easy to do.
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  #9  
Old 02-15-2011, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearloose1 View Post
The warranty covers FICM only, not consequential damage.




Do they publish a list of part numbers used to "upgrade" so we can validate and check the specs?

Funny, on their website, there is no mention of "upgraded" parts.




Are technical specifications that are meticulously validated at the manufacturer's level "in the eye of the beholder"?

If so, do you buy fuel that the vendor swears is 50 cetane..... and notice that your ride just sputters on the stuff?

Eye of the beholder?

Bring on the facts.

The actual part numbers used.

The source of the parts.

The actual specifications.


I like to see where they got 470uf or better (above 50V) and 1000uf or better (above 35V) capacitors rated at 125 degrees or better (with a reasonable hour life, and reasonable specs for ripple current.)

Hint: it is not impossible... just not easy to do.
Email them, Thats what I did! I am not here to say it's better, I am saying that they seem to be a nice honest company, with upgraded parts! We have had this convesation before, and YOU could not tell me how 45vlts is acceptable, when 48vlts is required and what the injectors where designed for! These folks make a living off of building diesel parts (upgraded or not) and I trust them to lead me more than a fella with a derated E-series! Sorry if I seem harsh, but ask them your questions, and dont belittle me for a tidbit of info they told me! O I will install one as many others have and report on it as long as I own the truck, just let me get my $ in order! I also havent heard of 1 failure or any other complaints because of the 58!
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  #10  
Old 02-15-2011, 09:48 PM
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When questions of technical specifications, engineering and validation turn into religious debates over faith, who to believe, and gospel that is sent by non public email to believers (and not published for the general public)....

I think I have then answer I need.

I will wait for a reputable independent laboratory with the proper equipment to run actual tests and publish the results before I decide to deviate from the original design.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006lariat View Post
! O I will install one as many others have and report on it as long as I own the truck, just let me get my $ in order! I also havent heard of 1 failure or any other complaints because of the 58!

Install it.

Be an alpha test site.

Be my guest.

So far, people who have tried the 58v mod have pretty mixed results -- ranging from no difference to codes --- separating the ones who just did the voltage and not additional software tuning.


Oh yes, I like my chassis mounted FICM just fine.

And my beast will be running long after many trucks on here are scrapped.

It is orders of magnitude more reliable than the engine mounted part.

Yes... I have a standing request for Ford to come up with a derated tune for the 6.7 so I can get more life out of that motor!

If there is a way for me to do a programmed cylinder de-activation to get more fuel economy (technically possible with a newly designed and programmed FICM), I would do that too!

Right now, the back-of-the envelope economy gain from a programmed cylinder deactivation with 4-6-8 arrangement is yielding about a 10 to 15% estimated fuel savings --- nearly worthwhile to try.

I am optimizing for longevity and fuel economy.

To date, I have the miles to prove reliability.
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  #11  
Old 02-15-2011, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearloose1 View Post
Install it.

Be an alpha test site.

Be my guest.

So far, people who have tried the 58v mod have pretty mixed results -- ranging from no difference to codes --- separating the ones who just did the voltage and not additional software tuning.

I like my chassis mounted FICM just fine.

It is orders of magnitude more reliable than the engine mounted part.

Oh... yes... I have a standing request for Ford to come up with a derated tune for the 6.7 so I can get more life out of that motor!

If there is a way for me to do a programmed cylinder de-activation to get more fuel economy (technically possible with a newly designed and programmed FICM), I would do that too!

Right now, the back-of-the envelope economy gain from a programmed cylinder deactivation with 4-6-8 arrangement is yielding about a 10 to 15% estimated fuel savings --- nearly worthwhile to try.

I am optimizing for longevity and fuel economy.
Ford didnt seem to mind makin a million test trucks, than they did it again with the 6.4, o and whats next, a couple more test subjects with the 6.7! I dont understand why you hate all aftermarket parts? You berated Bulletproof Diesel forever, Than 1 day you recommended them (I am aware he answered some ?'s)! I think the ford ficm is a problem, so I would rather replace with an "upgraded" one, versus a known to be garbage one! Maybe just Maybe it is infact better!

Would you like me to email them with all your questions? Or maybe send them this link?
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:25 AM
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Not to chage the subject, but how much does a swamps 48v FICM run?
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2011, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakewood View Post
Not to chage the subject, but how much does a swamps 48v FICM run?
$400 for the 48 volt.
$450 for the 58 volt.

There is a $350 core charge for either that is refunded when they receive your core.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2011, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearloose1 View Post
When questions of technical specifications, engineering and validation turn into religious debates over faith, who to believe, and gospel that is sent by non public email to believers (and not published for the general public)....

I think I have then answer I need.

I will wait for a reputable independent laboratory with the proper equipment to run actual tests and publish the results before I decide to deviate from the original design.





Install it.

Be an alpha test site.

Be my guest.

So far, people who have tried the 58v mod have pretty mixed results -- ranging from no difference to codes --- separating the ones who just did the voltage and not additional software tuning.


Oh yes, I like my chassis mounted FICM just fine.

And my beast will be running long after many trucks on here are scrapped.

It is orders of magnitude more reliable than the engine mounted part.

Yes... I have a standing request for Ford to come up with a derated tune for the 6.7 so I can get more life out of that motor!

If there is a way for me to do a programmed cylinder de-activation to get more fuel economy (technically possible with a newly designed and programmed FICM), I would do that too!

Right now, the back-of-the envelope economy gain from a programmed cylinder deactivation with 4-6-8 arrangement is yielding about a 10 to 15% estimated fuel savings --- nearly worthwhile to try.

I am optimizing for longevity and fuel economy.

To date, I have the miles to prove reliability.
OK, So I get that your not convinced about the Swamps updated FICM.

What do you suggest? Replace it with a Reman from Ford?
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieEX10 View Post
OK, So I get that your not convinced about the Swamps updated FICM.

What do you suggest? Replace it with a Reman from Ford?
If your application involves nothing "hopped up", no unusual needs, and you are seeking serious reliability, about the only way to get a bona fide FICM is via a Ford Reman.

Partsguyed.com will give you a great deal via mail order.

I will not touch any other reman as there is no certainty as to what parts they used for the reman, what they actually did, and so on.

If you want to play safe and cheap, get a Factory (not repaired) FICM off a E van wreck --- which has the device mounted on the chassis and not on the engine, and is known to be likely trouble free.

If you are fidgety and can't resist tinkering and being cheap, get the E van part, reflow the solder and restake it yourself.

If you like to push 58v off parts designed for 20% less voltage, you are on your own.

Since 58V is so good, I would like to try 100V!

Imagine... easier starts, better fuel economy....


The science that needs to be done (and is not being done) is the impact of higher voltages on the insulation / dielectrics from FICM onwards, with the weakest point likely to be the enamel on the coils.

More science on the effect of 20% or more higher peak / RMS energy through the parts, thermal overload, burn out etc.

I have yet to see a definitive test done under controlled conditions as to what is the impact of higher voltage (and current) and higher energy tossed at the coils, and what it means.

At the same time, higher velocities of the valve... and its impact on friction / wear.

Notice that those who flog the 58V mention absolutely nothing nor warrant the reliability of the injectors (@$200 or more a piece to replace PLUS labor), wiring, etc. downstream of their "upgraded" "hot" part.

The reason is simple: none of them have (or is willing to publish) the technical data to prove it is safe and reliable.

If they are so sure of themselves.... issue a full warranty for the downstream parts.

Where is the technical data / validation data for the mod?

Why is it not published?

What is so secret?

Unless they have something to hide, or they do not have the data at all... and they are shooting blind.. relying on their customers for alpha and beta tests.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:06 PM
 
 
 
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