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6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 2003 - 2007 F250, F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - 2009 van SPONSORED BY:

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Old 02-14-2011, 07:26 AM
lauraj lauraj is offline
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2007 F350 6.0 Power problems

Hubby is complaining his truck isn't making power like it used to. In the last few month have had several repairs.

First, some sort of throttle sensor went out and it would not start. replaced.

Then, low power, turbo lag, unusual shifting. took to dealer. They took apart the turbo, cleaned and rebuilt. Replaced the EGR valve. Ran better, but still not 100%. Several months later, power problems are getting noticable. Take back to dealer, they find CAC tubes are leaking and replace. Dealer says runs a little rough when cold, but ok after warm up. I go to pick up and it won't go! It was worse than when I brought it in. Turbo won't make above 20psi and that takes forever to kick in. Barely accelerates, etc... won't shift right. I take right back to dealer and tell him something awful is wrong and I will not take truck back to hubby.

Further testing reveals two injectors not working. They cleaned connectors on one injector and repalce one. Start engine next morning ( says they are only "seeing" the bad injectors on a cold start), and find the injector with the cleaned connectors bad plus a third. Replace. I pick up truck. Runs much better, but not sure 100%. Take back to hubby. He is complaining about it again. Says there is still a lag sometimes when trying to go from stop and not shifting right.

Dealer says we need to use Cetane and will help turbo problems. We live in Houston area. Weather has been very cold lately. BTW, hubby tends to let truck idle a lot in the morning when getting ready to leave for work - I read in the diesel supp that this is not good. He says should not matter....

He thinks it is in the torque converter?? Anybody out there have ideas?? We are at 85000 miles and warranty on powertrain up at 100,000, so I need to figure it out while still on Ford's dime.

Thanks

Laura

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  #2  
Old 02-14-2011, 03:40 PM
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Did they check the FICM voltage?
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6.0 owner be like: "There was that one time I made a trip without problems."
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:51 PM
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Don't know, but will ask. I had left a message stating I paid a months truck payment for the rental car already and it still wasn't running right. They want me to bring it up Wed....

Anybody have any other questions I should ask???

Thanks!!

Laura
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:47 PM
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a converter is not covered under 5/100 unless you bought an extened warranty. there is a 5/100 powerstroke warranty that covers just the engine.
next odds are its not a converter. the 5r110 is not know to have that issue or really any other issues. its a great unit.
the 06/07 trucks seem to have a bit of turbo lag and there may be an incress of lag felt if the pcm was reflashed to vxcf9
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:19 PM
lauraj lauraj is offline
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Thanks for the heads up on the torque converter.

Can you tell me a little more about this reflash program and why it would cause problems with the PCM ( power control module - right?). I assume the dealership would be able to tell what it currently contains and if a reflash was done, when? ( we have only had it serviced at Ford Dealers).

Thank you!

Laura
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:46 PM
John Irwin John Irwin is offline
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Wow, wish my wife was as interested in my truck as you are in your husband's...
The latest flash helps reduce turbo sticking because the strategy "sweeps" the turbo vanes at least once every hour if the truck is idling. Idling IS hard on these units just for that reason...the turbo just sits and spins with exhaust running through it and the vanes aren't moving. I think I would try another dealer, these guys don't appear to be much brighter than me...
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  #7  
Old 02-14-2011, 11:46 PM
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First off, to determine whether or not your truck's PCM/FICM/TCM is up to the latest and greatest, most current calibration level is very easy. All the tech would need to do, is attempt a module programming session with IDS. If it is already up to the most current level, a screen prompt will indicate NO LATER CALIBRATION IS AVAILABLE, and display the what calibration level the PCM is at (which for 2006/2007 F-250/F-350 6.0L trucks is 6U7A-12A650-FFE). But here's the catch 22. Ford won't pay for a PCM recalibration update unless a warranty covered component requires it as a part of the repair process, so you may need to pay for THAT on your dime, which isn't a bad idea since the most current calibration strategy will now de-rate engine power and throw the yellow "wrench" light on when three things are detected: EOT exceeds ECT by greater than 15*F under any given operating condition, turbo OVERBOOST is detected under any given operating condition, and if FICM voltages decrease to a level less than satisfactory. But this applies only to 2005 to 2007 6.0L trucks. 2003 to 2004 trucks are excluded from this strategy for reasons beyond me.

ASIDE:

PCM = Powertrain Control Module

FICM = Fuel Injector Control Module

TCM = Transmission Control Module

IDS = Integrated Diagnostic System

ECT = Engine Coolant Temperature

EOT = Engine Oil Temperature

If the CAC tubes are leaking, yes that will most definitely cause a turbo boost leak, as would an exhaust leak between the exhaust manifolds and exhaust inlet side to turbo. For what it's worth, more often than not, even when carrying out the VV-T test (a menu test to check the turbo's VGT operation) produces a PASS result, there can still be a problem inside the turbo. If the unison ring is even the slightest bit elongated on either end of the cam pivot hole, it would need to be replaced. Here is an article with pictures, on what is involved with servicing a turbo on a 6.0L:

Diesel Technician Society

Also, your perceived transmission issue due to delay in upshifting could very easily be caused by mistaken for, a plugged exhaust or air filter which would also cause a lack of, or slow turbo boost. Are there any DTCs pending still? If so, what are they? P0299, P0404, P0470, P2262 or P2263 by any chance? Will the engine rev up to 3800 RPMs very quickly if you hold the accelerator down to the floor in PARK of NEUTRAL, and remain at that engine speed until you release it?

I also agree with the dealer's statement that faulty or inoperative 6.0L fuel injectors are best diagnosesd when the engine is cold soaked. So THAT makes perfectly good sense. Where I'm confused, is when you mention that they "cleaned connectors" which I call BS on. Either it's working or it's not, plain and simple. Yes, we are all familiar with the famous 6.0L injector stiction issues. But if it's still within the 5/100 D.I.T. warranty it's covered (provided the the servicing tech went through the proper diagnostic test steps and submitted the appropriate prior approval request to Ford for).
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  #8  
Old 02-15-2011, 01:37 AM
lauraj lauraj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-chan68 View Post
First off, to determine whether or not your truck's PCM/FICM/TCM is up to the latest and greatest, most current calibration level is very easy. All the tech would need to do, is attempt a module programming session with IDS. If it is already up to the most current level, a screen prompt will indicate NO LATER CALIBRATION IS AVAILABLE, and display the what calibration level the PCM is at (which for 2006/2007 F-250/F-350 6.0L trucks is 6U7A-12A650-FFE). But here's the catch 22. Ford won't pay for a PCM recalibration update unless a warranty covered component requires it as a part of the repair process, so you may need to pay for THAT on your dime, which isn't a bad idea since the most current calibration strategy will now de-rate engine power and throw the yellow "wrench" light on when three things are detected: EOT exceeds ECT by greater than 15*F under any given operating condition, turbo OVERBOOST is detected under any given operating condition, and if FICM voltages decrease to a level less than satisfactory. But this applies only to 2005 to 2007 6.0L trucks. 2003 to 2004 trucks are excluded from this strategy for reasons beyond me.

ASIDE:

PCM = Powertrain Control Module

FICM = Fuel Injector Control Module

TCM = Transmission Control Module

IDS = Integrated Diagnostic System

ECT = Engine Coolant Temperature

EOT = Engine Oil Temperature

If the CAC tubes are leaking, yes that will most definitely cause a turbo boost leak, as would an exhaust leak between the exhaust manifolds and exhaust inlet side to turbo. For what it's worth, more often than not, even when carrying out the VV-T test (a menu test to check the turbo's VGT operation) produces a PASS result, there can still be a problem inside the turbo. If the unison ring is even the slightest bit elongated on either end of the cam pivot hole, it would need to be replaced. Here is an article with pictures, on what is involved with servicing a turbo on a 6.0L:

Diesel Technician Society

Also, your perceived transmission issue due to delay in upshifting could very easily be caused by mistaken for, a plugged exhaust or air filter which would also cause a lack of, or slow turbo boost. Are there any DTCs pending still? If so, what are they? P0299, P0404, P0470, P2262 or P2263 by any chance? Will the engine rev up to 3800 RPMs very quickly if you hold the accelerator down to the floor in PARK of NEUTRAL, and remain at that engine speed until you release it?

I also agree with the dealer's statement that faulty or inoperative 6.0L fuel injectors are best diagnosesd when the engine is cold soaked. So THAT makes perfectly good sense. Where I'm confused, is when you mention that they "cleaned connectors" which I call BS on. Either it's working or it's not, plain and simple. Yes, we are all familiar with the famous 6.0L injector stiction issues. But if it's still within the 5/100 D.I.T. warranty it's covered (provided the the servicing tech went through the proper diagnostic test steps and submitted the appropriate prior approval request to Ford for).
I agree completely on the bs about cleaning the connectors. I had a feeling that that one would ultimately be bad, and it was the next time they started it.

As for the recalibration, what type of parts would need that for it to be covered?? What would a fair out of pocket cost be? Not clear on the calibration showing codes though? Why, after calibration am I more likely to see the items you mentioned? If the new calibration de-rates power, isn't that the opposite of what I want ( more power)?

Is the unison ring easy to see, or does the whole turbo have to come off to check it? Will check if they had any codes and what they were. Will try the Park/Neutral engine run-up, too. What would it indicate if it did not pass that test?

They found three injectors that Ford Warranty approved replacement of. I find it hard to believe if three are bad, the others are not far behind.

Will check the link you sent. Thank you for the info, I really appreciate it. I know a little about machinery, enough that I can learn it pretty fast. It took me four months, but I got SeaRay to put two new engines and drives in our boat by educating myself about the problem and countering their claims. Folks like you on forums like this really helped me then.


Laura
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:05 AM
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No one has mentioned about idling yet. If he does more than 5 minutes of idling (IMO), he would be well advised to get the high idle mod ...... then idle away! Extended idle time really can cause carbon formation to accelerate, and then there is wet-stacking potential that is damaging over the long run.

Do you know if the MAP sensor tube and EBP tube were cleaned and inspected in any of the work that was done?
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:46 PM
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Hi all, spent the morning at the dealership. Mechanic went out for a drive with me and his computer. Couple little items that smoothed out ( EOT and ECT were a little out of balance momentarily, but then smoothed out). Nothing else visible on the computer. Tech however, could see what I meant about it just not being quite up to speed, so he took it back to look at a few items. We also discussed the air filter and I authorized it to be changed. He came back and told me the fuel pressure was fine ( he was checking between the fuel sender and the fuel pump). He changed the air filter, added some cetane, and cleaned out the MAP tube ( said it blew out a bunch of junk). We then went for another test drive.

Finally, the exhaust smell wafted through the cab and the mechanic noticed it even before I did. Air filter, cetane, and map tube cleaning made a huge difference in perofrmance already. Went back to the shop to check the down tubes fromn the turbo. Turns out they were fine, but he found lots of exhaust leaking from the heat exchanger and said there was no gasket. They are installing a gasket under warranty.

Mechanic says there should be one, but occasionally sees a truck without one. I did a little poking around on the web, and found some sites that said Ford does not always put one on there at the factory??

Thanks for all your help, because I mentioned some of these items to the mechanic, which I think prompted him to look a little deeper.

Laura

p.s. Speaking of long idles, my husband has been in the habit lately of starting the truck in the morning and then letting it run for 15-20 minutes while he gets ready for work. I had been fussing at him because of the fuel waste, but I finally told him, in the manual, it says DO NOT IDLE FOR LONG PERIODS! What is the high idle mod and how do you get one? Thanks!
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:02 PM
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Laura,

I gotta tell you, you've caught on quicker than most.
I hope your husband knows how lucky he is!
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:50 PM
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Great info here that applies to my F350 too.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lauraj View Post
Finally, the exhaust smell wafted through the cab and the mechanic noticed it even before I did. Air filter, cetane, and map tube cleaning made a huge difference in perofrmance already. Went back to the shop to check the down tubes fromn the turbo. Turns out they were fine, but he found lots of exhaust leaking from the heat exchanger and said there was no gasket. They are installing a gasket under warranty.

Mechanic says there should be one, but occasionally sees a truck without one. I did a little poking around on the web, and found some sites that said Ford does not always put one on there at the factory??

Thanks for all your help, because I mentioned some of these items to the mechanic, which I think prompted him to look a little deeper.

Laura

p.s. Speaking of long idles, my husband has been in the habit lately of starting the truck in the morning and then letting it run for 15-20 minutes while he gets ready for work. I had been fussing at him because of the fuel waste, but I finally told him, in the manual, it says DO NOT IDLE FOR LONG PERIODS! What is the high idle mod and how do you get one? Thanks!
I am puzzled...what "heat exchanger" was he referring to? I know of no heat exchanger in the exhaust circuit...other than the EGR cooler. I wonder what he was talking about. High Idle mod is covered in the tech folder at the top of this forum...or you can do a search to bring up the info. Good luck.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakebrake View Post
I am puzzled...what "heat exchanger" was he referring to? I know of no heat exchanger in the exhaust circuit...other than the EGR cooler. I wonder what he was talking about. High Idle mod is covered in the tech folder at the top of this forum...or you can do a search to bring up the info. Good luck.
"heat exchanger" may be refering to the intercooler
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:00 PM
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the intercooler is a heat exchanger but it would not leak exhaust...it is in the intake tract...filtered pressurized air to the intake manifold.
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