This is my first post here. I haunt the forum a lot but today I had a specific question so I registered.

First, a little info on my truck. It is a 2WD '77 F150 with a 460. It isnt the original motor. If I remember correctly the engine has a Lincoln code and the truck VIN indicates it had a 351 from the factory. Anyways. I have had it for 3 years, drive it to work daily. Runs like a top, until now.

Start by saying I have had a small problem the whole time I have owned it. When I drive for a while, my headers heat the starter up and I have to let it cool a bit before restarting. Upon replacing the starter for a third time I put a heat shield on it, which has preserved its life for a couple of years now, but it still suffers from heat soak. The main issue here is that I have burned up several solenoids by getting impatient and trying to turn it over.

Like many of you, we just had massive amounts of snow here in Oklahoma. I stopped on my way home from work to help dig a lady's car out of the snow. Since no good deed goes unpunished, my truck wouldnt start. I waited a bit and tried again, but it started acting like my battery was going. Not surprising. Battery is 2 years old and its cold out and, if Im being honest, the battery was a little underpowered for the job to begin with. Tested it, and sure enough, it showed under 10 Volts. I tried jumping it just to get it home, and it would crank and crank but never fire. This is unusual. Generally if I get it to crank, it fires almost immediately.

It is getting fuel, and I tried starter fluid. The distributer is spinning, so unless the timing chain jumped a tooth it should be fine. Got a little spark from the coil wire, but it was hard to see from the cab and couldnt check spark at the plugs by myself. Anyways, my multimeter is junk, a Harbor Frieght job made by Chinamen, so it is no help in diagnosing. Since parts are fairly inexpensive and it is freezing out, I just started replacing. Everything was probably due anyways.

I replaced the coil, plug wires, ignition module and got a new battery. Now it cranks well, and it acts like it gets a little fire about once every rotation and actually acts like it wants to start the split second I stop cranking. I dont rule out that the "new" ignition module is also bad since it is also made by Chinamen. My next option seems to be swapping the distributor, thinking its a bad pickup coil. Cap and rotor are fine, recently replaced.

After ALL that I have come to my actual question; Is it possible that another burned up starter solenoid could cause this? In the past, when they have gone bad, the starter just quit working, but I was thinking that it is conceivable that it could still turn the starter but cause a no/weak spark situation since the 12 volts to the coil comes from the starter solenoid. So the question is, is this possible? Also, could I find out by putting a jump wire from battery positive to the coil's battery terminal while I crank? They are cheap enough that I could just swap a solenoid, but I need to go buy another one and I would like to diagnose it before I go to the parts store in case I need to grab a dizzy too.

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

Welcome to FTE! The "I" terminal of the solenoid provides full battery voltage to the coil during cranking. When the key is in RUN, the coil is powered by a resistor wire from the ignition switch. This drops the coil voltage to 7 to 9 volts while the engine is running. However, the start bypass wire from the solenoid bypasses the resistor wire when the key is in START. This is because the voltage typically sags while the starter cranks and pulls current. This lowered voltage in combination with the resistor wire would be too low for the coil to produce enough spark energy, hence the use of the bypass wire.

So while it's true that a bad solenoid could cause the issue you're seeing, if the starter is actually turning, then I doubt the solenoid is the issue. Since the starter is turning, you know the slug inside the solenoid is actually moving. You could easily test this by checking for power at the "I" terminal while a buddy cranks the engine. You can make the solenoid close yourself by jumping the battery terminal of the solenoid to the "S" terminal with a screwdriver, just be careful not to ground it out on the sheetmetal.

To start figuring out why you don't have spark, connect a test light from the TACH TEST (negative) terminal of the coil to clean, unpainted metal on the engine (ground). The coil must remain connected. Crank the engine over from the cab, and the light should BLINK. If the pickup module in the distributor is bad, it will not send a trigger signal to the ignition module, and the light will not blink.

 

Thanks, I will give that a shot. So if it does not blink this also does not rule out a bad ignition module, correct? The wiring looks ok, however, I did get a lot of blowing snow up in the engine compartment, especially up around where the ignition module is. Since I had run it for a while that day I thought maybe water was the issue, but that has been 3 days ago and I replaced the module and checked the connections. Still possible its a bad ground somewhere, I just find it interesting that this suddenly came about with a dying battery that I put a charge on. No intermittent problems before that. Makes me think that I burned something up either with the charge or when the starter was struggling to pull when hot. It really was a situation where it ran fine for about 45 minutes, sat 10 minutes, no start.

I actually also bought a pickup module, not realizing that the armature was held on by a roll pin. Im going to return the module, and a new distributor really doesnt cost that much more if that is what is needed.

 

You're correct; if the light does not blink, the module could be bad, or not receiving power. Since the module is new it's less likely to be the issue, but not impossible.

Personally I would hold off on replacing the entire distributor just to change out the pickup module; your original distributor has centrifugal weights and a vacuum advance that are tailored to your specific engine. I'm not sure it's guaranteed that a replacement will have the same timing curve.

 

I think it may still be worth a shot. It needs to be moved and I dont want to call a tow truck and the roads are too bad to pull with another pickup. If I could just get it to limp back to my driveway I could adjust it and time it.

This engine has been a good runner, but it isnt exactly a precision instrument. Basically Im saying Im not sure just how dialed in the advance and curve were to begin with.

To change the module I would have to pull it anyways, and Im not at all sure how I would get the armature off, but I know how to do a straight swap.

Not saying your opinion is incorrect. Just saying that I may risk it.

 

Nevermind. Im going your way. I read somewhere that you needed a press or something to remove it, but Im seeing instructional sites all over now where they used two screwdriver to pry it up then pop out the roll pin. So I will go mark and pull the distributor tonight and work on it in my PJ's once all the kids and the wife are asleep.

I love rebuilding parts when off the car. Pop in a good movie and get after it. Thats how I do my carbs.

One quick, dumb question, but I have to ask since the truck is parked three blocks away and its easier to not pack up a bunch of tools. What size is the distributor hold down bolt? I havent ever messed with this one. My '64 Galaxie was 1/2" but it wasnt a Duraspark.

 

All the Fords I have worked on have been 1/2-inch; not sure if it's universal or not. I have a special J-shaped wrench for this, literally called a "distributor wrench."

 

Well, the pickup coil did the trick. Runs smoother and stronger than before, likely thanks to all the other new ignition parts that were due for a change.

I drove it straight home and parked it. I was planning to drive it somewhere tonight, but I went to check the oil.... and it smelled like gas. I assume from all the cranking and pumping on the gas I have done since Wednesday. Sucks because I only had about 30 miles on the oil change I did last Saturday.

 

Glad to hear you got it started. If the oil smells like gas, then that's a sign the fuel pump is dumping gas into the oil. The pump must be replaced and the oil changed.

 

You really think its the fuel pump and not just that I repeatedly flooded the engine for three days trying to get it to turn over? I just figured gas was going into the cylinders and leaking past the rings into the crankcase.

I check the oil often, probably once every two days. I also just changed it last Saturday without any gas smell or thin oil condition like I have now. I know its possible for it to go out at any time, I just think it is too coincidental that this happened at the same time I was doing all the cranking and pumping. Im sure I flooded it good at least twice in the process.

I think I will double check my drain pan from the last change and make sure there is no gas in that oil. If there is, the pump gets changed for sure. If not, I think I will just change the oil and monitor it CLOSELY for a bit. Its only $30 for the pump and its not hard to change, but I dont want to just throw money at it, you know?

 

Man, I could get tired of you being right. Oh well. Thought all I was out was the 5 quarts of oil, but now it looks like the truck is out of service for at least another day. The parts store gave me the wrong fuel pump. Well, I think it would have been the right fuel pump if this were the original engine. Now I have to figure that out.

 

It cranks but no fire,,,both fuel pumps are working has gas in it and good battery,,anyone please help me...

 

Welcome to FTE
You have posted this in the wrong year for your truck but have you checked for spark yet?
Dave ----