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1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

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  #31  
Old 02-18-2011, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. M View Post
Awesome...that's what I wanted to hear!!! I am much more familiar with SCT and Tweecer from trolling the Gen1 lightning forums.

I have considered the Baumann TCS controller, but I always ASSumed a proper tuning platform would have the ability to change these parameters as well without forking out another $750 to tune just the shift points.

HOG1 is the code on my PCM. It's a rare PCM as a 1994 California Emissions truck with stock MAF, 5.0 and E4od. But any OBD-1, 5.0, MAF, E4OD binary should work.

Thanks much 73FOMO! Very much appreciated.

Mike
Are you sure its not HUG1? I am almost certain this would fall under the CBAZ0 strategy which is what my '95 MAF truck uses. You have to pay $25 for this definition from Derek (definition author) and I am pretty sure I have some calibrations that would work. I have the binary (calibration data) for Hug0 and Hug2. Your truck looks to be the same as mine except I have the 4r70w vs. e4od. We could have you tuning your motor and transmission for $355 if you have a laptop. That's for the QH, BE, and the definition.
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  #32  
Old 02-18-2011, 03:08 PM
Flareside13 Flareside13 is offline
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I am a bit confused atm. If I am understanding correctly you need to have a MAF to do any kind of tuning? Also is it possible to do tuning on a 93 with out a MAF? I didnt want to go threw the extra work of converting it to a MAF but if thats the only way well....then Ill go the route of just getting a MS to save me a lot of time.
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  #33  
Old 02-18-2011, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 73FOMO View Post
Are you sure its not HUG1? I am almost certain this would fall under the CBAZ0 strategy which is what my '95 MAF truck uses. You have to pay $25 for this definition from Derek (definition author) and I am pretty sure I have some calibrations that would work. I have the binary (calibration data) for Hug0 and Hug2. Your truck looks to be the same as mine except I have the 4r70w vs. e4od. We could have you tuning your motor and transmission for $355 if you have a laptop. That's for the QH, BE, and the definition.
HOG is for MAF 5.0 with E4OD and HUG is for 5.0 with 4R70W. The transmission code is different.
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  #34  
Old 02-18-2011, 03:19 PM
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I am a bit confused atm. If I am understanding correctly you need to have a MAF to do any kind of tuning? Also is it possible to do tuning on a 93 with out a MAF? I didnt want to go threw the extra work of converting it to a MAF but if thats the only way well....then Ill go the route of just getting a MS to save me a lot of time.
It is strange.

In the Ford tuning world, it seems to be impossible to get a tuner to tune a Speed Density ECU. All that happens is you get told to put on a MAF system.

Yet GM performance cars often run BOTH a MAF and Speed Density, and tuners always tune the Speed Density code.

So it looks like you'd need a Quarterhorse or TweecerRT, a licensed copy of BE, a definition file that matches your ECU, and a tuner who understands Speed Density, and all the Software.

It's not that hard to tune SD as long as the motor still makes reasonable manifold vacuum at idle. And that's because SD tuning presumes that when manifold pressure increases, so does engine Load.
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  #35  
Old 02-18-2011, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Flareside13 View Post
I am a bit confused atm. If I am understanding correctly you need to have a MAF to do any kind of tuning? Also is it possible to do tuning on a 93 with out a MAF? I didnt want to go threw the extra work of converting it to a MAF but if thats the only way well....then Ill go the route of just getting a MS to save me a lot of time.

Yes you can tune speed density, if your pcm is supported, and if you know the ins and outs of sd, but MAF is the preferred route.
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  #36  
Old 02-18-2011, 04:53 PM
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I actually did some research on tuning SD. DIYAutotune has a unassembled kit for SD and the 4.9L is supported. Catch is they have not had a chance to put together any Fuel and Spark Maps for it. I also am unsure if its a Stand Alone or a Piggy Back set up. But the nice part is it does come with all the tuning software. Plan to email them and get a feel for what it actually is. MAF is always prefered but then you run into the issue of converting everything over. Which takes more time and more money I dont see that tuning SD can be much harder that MAF. In your opnion can a SD be tuned as well as a MAF?
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  #37  
Old 02-18-2011, 05:16 PM
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Subscribed. I have Tweecer RT sitting in the shop still in the box for when my F-150 is finished. I have never messed with it before, but hopefully it's not too hard to figure out.
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  #38  
Old 02-18-2011, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73FOMO View Post
Are you sure its not HUG1?
Yes sir. It's HOG1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73FOMO View Post
I am almost certain this would fall under the CBAZ0 strategy which is what my '95 MAF truck uses. You have to pay $25 for this definition from Derek (definition author) and I am pretty sure I have some calibrations that would work. I have the binary (calibration data) for Hug0 and Hug2. Your truck looks to be the same as mine except I have the 4r70w vs. e4od. We could have you tuning your motor and transmission for $355 if you have a laptop. That's for the QH, BE, and the definition.
$355? Awesome! Tell me more. I'd like to jump on it.

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Originally Posted by Flareside13 View Post
. In your opnion can a SD be tuned as well as a MAF?
Yes sir it can.

Take a look at the NLoc forum. There are dozens of guys running very high HP motors on a tuned OEM SD system. Some of these with power adders as well.

A MAF is not the be-all-end all answer. In the high end GT world of BMW... folks often ditch their MAF units and run a BAP sensor and an alpha-n tune (similar to SD). Seems counter intuitive... but the performance gain, and years of reliability cannot be knocked. FWIW.. Used 4.0 L v8 motors are $25,000+ with unknown conditions!! Yes...used. And folks swear by alpha-n tunes (enough to throw their MAF and warranty away) in the M3/M5/M6 platform.

A SD system with a proper custom tune should provide excellent results. The MAF gives you the +/- 15% factor that gives us some leeway and makes folks feel warm and fuzzy. Plus the parts are cheap and found at any pick and pull. With SD or Alpha-n, your maps have to be spot on.
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  #39  
Old 02-18-2011, 06:23 PM
Flareside13 Flareside13 is offline
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So what your saying Mr. M is that SD actually tunes better? Hmmmm interesting. Now the only issue I have is no one has any Maps for the DIY kit If possible I would much rather get everything running myself then take it to the shop for the "fine" tuning. If I want to take my truck clear to Atlanta GA Im sure I could get a free map and a free tune for being the ginny pig
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  #40  
Old 02-18-2011, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flareside13 View Post
...SD actually tunes better?...
Actually, it is a little more difficult and it does not respond to atmospheric changes in open loop/WOT. I purchased SCT Pro Racer package back in 04 and have been using ever since, with speed density and mass air and both were/are supercharged applications and the MA application was with larger injectors and aftermarket MAF. I also use a wideband and EASE Diagnostics for datalogging to my laptop

The thing to understand is that Ford programming is based off the transmission; it basically keeps it from failing prematurely. Things like tip in timing retard and flashing the converter between shifts is one of the ways that this is done.

One of the challenges I had with speed density is drive-ability, mostly with tip in lean conditions. I was able to reduce the effects of that to a certain degree, but never eliminate it completely like I did with mass air. These were minor issues but issues none the less. .

On the flip side, if you're using an aftermarket MAF with larger injectors, you have to build your own transfer function. Not really all that difficult, but it does take some time to do and you need to have a wideband and datalogger to watch the A/F ratios and short term fuel trims. Once you have the transfer function dialed in, you should never have to mess with it again.
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  #41  
Old 02-18-2011, 09:32 PM
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Yes..you can totally control lockup of the TCC, but TCC does not work in first gear, I also would not suggest to use in 2nd. You can lockup 3rd and 4th all day if you want. You can set the lock and unlock mph no problem. I like for it to kick off personally...right now I have mine tweaked to lock right after shifting into 3rd and right after shifting into 4th, and to unlock when I go below those shift points.

Transmission tuning rocks! I love that mine is electronically controlled.
I build Manual VB's for the AOD and 4R70W, and yes, controling lockup in 2nd is cool, but NOT a good idea.

As for your program, you UNLOCK the converter durring the 3-4 shift? WHy not just leave it locked? What you suggest sounds like the same way stock does it.

I think the big thing is ditching the TIMMING retard durring shift, at least this is what the cars do...if the truck does the same thing, ouch.
RUn the timming live, let the trans do the rest.
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  #42  
Old 02-18-2011, 09:36 PM
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73FOMO

You said the HUG1 is 5.0 with 4R70w?
I was not aware of a EEC for this application? What years or models did it come in?

This is good news for me...I want to swap my E4 to a 4R70W, but worried there was no EEC for this.

Know the kicker...I assume it is SD, so will it run my 5.8L with NO mods? Guessing not.
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  #43  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Blurry94 View Post
you have to build your own transfer function.
What do you mean by this? Still learning the ins and outs of the tuning world. I figured learn the best way before diving into anything. I think the most difficult part of all of this will be sorting out what not many have done considering Im playing on doing all of this with a 4.9L. Sounds to me that a Aftermarket MAF would be a better option. This wont be a FI build but I also know that a lot of the internals Im considering the factory ECU will not like. So with that said in terms of using the E4OD things are probably going to become even more fun to sort out. Would I be better off to set the Engine up on a Stand Alone and then have a seprate stand alone for the E4OD? I expect to hear a bunch of not using the E4OD and well if I can help it I dont plan to change. Kinda a fan of it.
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  #44  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:05 PM
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One of the first things I disable is the tip in timing retard and I also raise the Throttle Valve pressure, at higher throttle positions, to firm up the shifts. If the converter flashes during shift transitions, then I change the lock-up schedules and/or delta ratios to eliminate this if the converter is locked after 1st gear. Flashing the converter under heavy load condition will cause heat to build.

If you're going to eliminate the timing retard, I suggest increasing the TV pressure so the shifts are firm and quick and to reduce the build up of heat.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flareside13 View Post
What do you mean by this? Still learning the ins and outs of the tuning world. I figured learn the best way before diving into anything. I think the most difficult part of all of this will be sorting out what not many have done considering Im playing on doing all of this with a 4.9L. Sounds to me that a Aftermarket MAF would be a better option. This wont be a FI build but I also know that a lot of the internals Im considering the factory ECU will not like. So with that said in terms of using the E4OD things are probably going to become even more fun to sort out. Would I be better off to set the Engine up on a Stand Alone and then have a seprate stand alone for the E4OD? I expect to hear a bunch of not using the E4OD and well if I can help it I dont plan to change. Kinda a fan of it.

First things first, what kind of power level are you after and what is the main purpose of your rig?
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:09 PM
 
 
 
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