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Tuning our Ford OBDI EEC IV - QH/Tweecer/Others

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  #136  
Old 08-16-2014, 09:08 PM
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By a little, I mean .25 to 1 mpg.
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  #137  
Old 08-16-2014, 10:01 PM
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Actually anything behind the catalytic converter will help also along with a lower restriction intake tract.
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  #138  
Old 08-17-2014, 01:56 AM
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  #139  
Old 09-27-2015, 07:26 PM
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I know absolutely nothing absolutely nothing about DIY tuning. I've always been able to bolt in my own powermakers then take my cars/trucks to a dyno and have a pro make them all work together for more ponies/efficiency.

Since getting into this bloody EEC-4 speed density stuff, I've found it impossible to get anyone to tune my truck. As mentioned in this thread, they all tell me to convert to MAF and come back. Just seems silly and unnecessary. So, knowing full well I'll be completely lost and likely break my beloved F250 if I tune it myself, are there folks out there the provide/sell "off the shelf" tunes to be punched into a tweecer or quarter horse, based on provided engine and upgrade specs? Sort of like PCM for less does with LT1 OBD1 and ALDL cars.

I'm savvy enough to install all the hardware, and run the programs, I just wouldn't know what to change, what to look for after, and why.

OR if anyone knows of a local EEC-4 speed density tuner in the greater Phoenix area, that would be fantastic!
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  #140  
Old 09-27-2015, 07:33 PM
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william.a.vose
What engine/trans combination do you have? There are some people that do tune these things.
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  #141  
Old 09-27-2015, 07:44 PM
Gasquatch Gasquatch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85lebaront2 View Post
What engine/trans combination do you have? There are some people that do tune these things.
460/E4OD

I've called all over the place and no one wants to touch it.
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  #142  
Old 09-27-2015, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasquatch View Post
460/E4OD

I've called all over the place and no one wants to touch it.
There is very little support for the speed density stuff. If you want to keep it speed density, your best best is to convert it to a first gen lightning computer, which is decently well supported.

If you want to convert to mass air, you need a PCM from a 94-95 F-150 California E4OD truck.

You could also convert to a Mustang A9L mass air computer with a standalone transmission controller.
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  #143  
Old 09-27-2015, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lead Head View Post
There is very little support for the speed density stuff. If you want to keep it speed density, your best best is to convert it to a first gen lightning computer, which is decently well supported.

If you want to convert to mass air, you need a PCM from a 94-95 F-150 California E4OD truck.

You could also convert to a Mustang A9L mass air computer with a standalone transmission controller.
But isn't the whole theme, and my understanding, of this thread that our system is sufficiently tunable for moderately modified motors? Sure I'd love to convert to MAF but it just seems like more time and $$$ that could be used elsewhere.

I dunno, just seems like with the market out there for tweecer and QH, there's gotta be guys out there that can tune our trucks, and do it well.
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  #144  
Old 09-27-2015, 08:56 PM
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william.a.vose
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasquatch View Post
460/E4OD

I've called all over the place and no one wants to touch it.
Same issue I had. The suggested 1st gen lightning computer is a good one, it is an SD/BF w/E4OD computer. I went MAF/SEFI because I wanted to get away from the bank fired 460 after seeing 2 and hearing of a 3rd with problems with #5 cylinder. If you stay with SD, you may want to look at re sequencing the injectors. Fords bank fired systems pair the injectors as 4 end and 4 center which works fine on the 302 and 351 engines which have 8 individual runners from the plenum. The 460s have what looks like a carburetor lower manifold and the runners are paired like a normal 180° design. The fuel rails run from the right rear across to both sides and the pressure regulator is on the left front right over #5 injector. I am not sure, but since the firing order is 15426378 and the injector groups are 1458 and 2367, #1 and #5 injector along with #4 and #8 fire together fuel comes in at the right rear passes up both sides and returns just above #5 injector. I suspect that under certain conditions #5 injector runs lean burning the piston slowly till it fails.

I re sequenced mine as 1467 and 2358 so they acted like a TBI system. You just have to be sure to get #1 on the #1 injector bank so it triggers correctly from the distributor.
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1986 F350 crew cab DRW 460ci EEC-V MAF/SEFI, E4OD, PMGR starter, 160 amp 3G alternator, 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, Traction lock 3.55
1995 Lincoln Continental (project car), 1994 Taurus LX (daily driver)
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  #145  
Old 09-27-2015, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85lebaront2 View Post
Same issue I had. The suggested 1st gen lightning computer is a good one, it is an SD/BF w/E4OD computer. I went MAF/SEFI because I wanted to get away from the bank fired 460 after seeing 2 and hearing of a 3rd with problems with #5 cylinder. If you stay with SD, you may want to look at re sequencing the injectors. Fords bank fired systems pair the injectors as 4 end and 4 center which works fine on the 302 and 351 engines which have 8 individual runners from the plenum. The 460s have what looks like a carburetor lower manifold and the runners are paired like a normal 180° design. The fuel rails run from the right rear across to both sides and the pressure regulator is on the left front right over #5 injector. I am not sure, but since the firing order is 15426378 and the injector groups are 1458 and 2367, #1 and #5 injector along with #4 and #8 fire together fuel comes in at the right rear passes up both sides and returns just above #5 injector. I suspect that under certain conditions #5 injector runs lean burning the piston slowly till it fails.

I re sequenced mine as 1467 and 2358 so they acted like a TBI system. You just have to be sure to get #1 on the #1 injector bank so it triggers correctly from the distributor.
Yeah I've heard of the #5 cylinder issue too, resequencing is brilliant!

You guys sure know how to burst a guy's speed density bubble haha.

Looks like tires and gears will hafta wait till after MAF :/

Now the dilemma is to spend the time/aggravation in locating, then pulling the PCM, wiring, air tubing, then redneck engineer it all.

OR

Spend the big $$$ for a proper plug and play kit.
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  #146  
Old 09-27-2015, 09:23 PM
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william.a.vose
I did the re sequence before I did the MAF/SEFI conversion. I used a 1995 Lincoln Continental MAF on mine and an EEC-V system since I can direct flash it using a Mongoose Pro pass-through cable and BE2012 to tune it. If you go that way, Adam Marrer, POPS Racing can get you pretty well set up.
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1986 F350 crew cab DRW 460ci EEC-V MAF/SEFI, E4OD, PMGR starter, 160 amp 3G alternator, 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, Traction lock 3.55
1995 Lincoln Continental (project car), 1994 Taurus LX (daily driver)
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Last edited by 85lebaront2; 09-28-2015 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Typo
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  #147  
Old 09-28-2015, 09:30 AM
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[QUOTE=Gasquatch;15675392]But isn't the whole theme, and my understanding, of this thread that our system is sufficiently tunable for moderately modified motors? Sure I'd love to convert to MAF but it just seems like more time and $$$ that could be used elsewhere.

Speed density EFI can run mild to wild motors no problem. The question is, how are you going to tune? Which tools? Do you have the knowledge to do it?

This is why “convert to MAF” is often suggested. There are more tools available and a lot more expertise floating around on the web thanks to the Mustang guys who pioneered this and the companies that make the tools.

Another factor is the Speed Density system relies more on data tables than sensor information. Add a bit of cam or port the heads and the assumptions in the data tables are now way off. That means every time you play with the metal bits, you’ll probably have to tune the software bits.

MAF systems measure the amount of air being sucked into the engine and doesn’t care about the engine very much as long as the air being sucked in doesn’t exceed the MAF’s range.

Changing the wiring isn’t that big of a deal. Sure, one can buy a MAF harness from the aftermarket and toss it on. You can also spend a few hours in the junkyard taking one off something else, then another few hours putting it on your truck.

Or, you can do it the easy way and google the wiring diagrams associated with your year truck, and the wiring diagrams associated with the MAF EEC you’re going to use, and figure out which wires to add (MAF, maybe a second O2 sensor, injector harness) and which wires to re-pin (thermactor) and you’re 99% there.

But you’re right, most tuning shops aren’t interested in being handed a speed-density Ford truck. Tuning the tables that hold the assumptions about the engine is a pain in the **** for those who don’t know what they’re doing. MAF is so much easier.
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  #148  
Old 09-28-2015, 09:47 AM
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william.a.vose
Easiest way to get a real close harness if you have a 1992-97 truck, find a 1996 or 1997 F250HD with a 5.8L engine and E4OD. The engine harness will pretty well fit, but needs a few relocations, primarily the throttle body connections. On the 5.0 and 5.8 engines the throttle body sits on the right side near the front and the connections are on the end of the right side of the harness. On the 7.5L the throttle body is almost centered and the TPS and EGR connections are on the left side.

The 7.5L TPS is different, but your old harness will provide that plug and the coil and solenoid wiring. Chassis harness will be a drop in, but you may need to relocated the O2 sensors from the engine harness to the chassis harness. This will also give you the MAF and ACT wiring you need as the MAF system has the ACT in the air filter lid.

On wiring, I have most if not all of the diagrams you need in my AllData.
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1986 F350 crew cab DRW 460ci EEC-V MAF/SEFI, E4OD, PMGR starter, 160 amp 3G alternator, 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, Traction lock 3.55
1995 Lincoln Continental (project car), 1994 Taurus LX (daily driver)
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  #149  
Old 09-28-2015, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85lebaront2 View Post
Easiest way to get a real close harness if you have a 1992-97 truck, find a 1996 or 1997 F250HD with a 5.8L engine and E4OD. The engine harness will pretty well fit, but needs a few relocations, primarily the throttle body connections. On the 5.0 and 5.8 engines the throttle body sits on the right side near the front and the connections are on the end of the right side of the harness. On the 7.5L the throttle body is almost centered and the TPS and EGR connections are on the left side.

The 7.5L TPS is different, but your old harness will provide that plug and the coil and solenoid wiring. Chassis harness will be a drop in, but you may need to relocated the O2 sensors from the engine harness to the chassis harness. This will also give you the MAF and ACT wiring you need as the MAF system has the ACT in the air filter lid.

On wiring, I have most if not all of the diagrams you need in my AllData.
All good info. I'm confident in doing the swap myself, no real issues there. ...minus the adding a second O2 sensor, but that can be easily researched. Just didn't wanna have to do it just to make my go fast bits work in harmony.

But, it's been decided. MAF it is.

Thanks for the feedback fellas, if I run into wiring snags, you'll be the first I PM haha!
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  #150  
Old 09-28-2015, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasquatch View Post
Just didn't wanna have to do it just to make my go fast bits work in harmony.
You don't have to, but it's probably the path of least resistance for you considering all the info and help you'll have access to once you do it. I personally think the big benefit is you can play with lumpy cams and the MAF system is very tolerant. Speed density, because it measures vacuum, won't be very happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasquatch View Post
minus the adding a second O2 sensor
If you don't want to weld a sensor bung onto your exhaust system, there are no-weld o2 sensor bung kits available. Basically, it's a wide exhaust clamp that goes between two sections of pipe and has a bung centered in between. That might make this part of the job easier for you.

I've seen them in 2.5" and 3.0" sizes and because they're adjustable downwards, that covers 2.25-3.0" diameter pipes well.

Hope that helps.
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