I am having some problems getting my 82 F150 4WD to pass CA smog. Because of the trucks age I have been referred to a "test only" station. Apparently they enforce the test standards more rigorusly (see my post about the emissions hose). The basic problem is that the NOx gases are over the limit by about 20%. From talking with people, and reading other posts, I believe the problem is in the ERG valve/system.

I intend on replace the EGR position sensor and EGR valve as they are the original parts. However, I would like to sove another annoying problem that may be related. For several years the emissions solenoids, mounted on drivers side valve cover constantly "chatter" (click on/off) while I am driving. The problem does not happen when the engine is cold or while reving the engine in idle. I typically disconnect these things except for the smog test. Any ideas on how to test these solenoids? And is there a way to get the EEC III codes? None of the common off the shelf code readers seem to work with this system.

The truck is somewhat modified from stock. I did all of these mods in 1996 so the truck has passed smog before, but not at a test only station.
Engine: 351w originally a 302
Edlebrock Intake Manifold, smog legal
Jacobs ingition
Holley 2300 carb (1-684, a special version that Holley made to directly repalce the V V carb, CA smog legal, no longer available)
New Cat, Muffler, and exhaust pipes

Any thoughts or advice?

Thanks in advance

Dave

BTW, I have search this site and found several good starting points and reference material. The amount of info is awesome

 

Dave, you can test the EGR Control solenoid and EGR Vent solenoid with an ohm meter. The spec calls for a resistance of over 30 ohm's. Mine both tested at 43 ohm's.

You might want to get a vacuum routing diagram to make sure both solenoid's are plumbed correctly too. There is a good one on line at Autozone's website. Make sure you get the correct one for the EEC engine. You can tell the correct one because it won't show any vacuum routing to the distributor. I believe the correct one is "CALIBRATION: 1-24R-RO".

You should remove the vacuum lines and blow through them to check for obstruction. I found a BB in the vacuum line between the Control solenoid and the EGR Valve!

EEC-III does not have on-board-diagnostic, or OBD. So code readers are of no use. A good multi-meter is about the only diagnostic tool we've got.

I think you are on the right track, suspecting the EGR Valve is not operating. When I hear the solenoid click and the EGR opens, I can tell because it actually drops RPM a little. If you have a digital camera, would you mind taking some photos of the EGR Valve and the flange it sits on? I am considering trying to fashion an orifice plate for the EGR, because mine seems to work a little too well.

BTW, I have the same Holly carburetor as you. It uses the stock Motorcraft Feedback Control Actuator. But I am having a hard time finding a new one. My part's store tried both Holly and Motorcraft, but they both are saying it's obsolete. Fortunately they seem to fail in the rich position. I had no idea what model that Holly carb was (Holley 2300 carb 1-684), so thank's for the info.

Scott

 

Scott,

I was hoping you would reply. I have read many of your previous posts and see we have traveled many of the same roads with our truck repair and modifications.

I will use your advice and throughly check out the vacuum lines. I have to admit, I made a hugh mistake and let someone else work on the truck besides me and the guy dorked up the vacuum lines. I don't know if I am more pissed at him, or me -for letting some else touch the truck.

As for the pics, I will send soon, but I am going away this weekend, so you won't get them until next week. If I replace the EGR valve, you can have the old one if it does you any good.

As for the carb, I spoke with Holley a week ago, that is when I found out the unit was discontinued. The tech was very helpfull though; he said rebuild kits are still available and the model 2300 rebuild info on their web page was appilcable.
Have you tried http://www.partsamerica.com/ to try to find your part. The website has references to the Ford part numbers and usually they have a picture as well.

Thanks again for the reply. I hope the info helps.

Dave

 

Hey Dave, thanks for the link! I'll have to check it out to see if they have a feedback motor.

One other thing that you may find useful, is a MightyVac vacuum pump. Another FTE user turned me on to it. Basically it's a hand powered vacuum pump with a gauge on it. I've found it very useful for checking the operation of the various solenoid's. The vacuum gauge will indicate when the solenoid's are opening or bleeding off. You can use the hand pump to manually operate vacuum diaphram's like the EGR and Thermactor controls. Then you can use the gauge to check that they hold vacuum and don't leak. I got mine through NAPA, but any auto parts store should be able to order one.

I had to educate myself about the vacuum system and electronic engine controls because most shops don't seem to know or care about vehicles that old. Also it seems that EEC-III isn't all that common or well understood. When I got my truck back from the shop after an engine change-out, I found one of the Thermactor valve diaphrams' connected to the cannister purge system! Of course I didn't know right away, I had to figure it out.

The best and most complete source of info I've been able to find on EEC-III is in the Mitchell Manual's. I found it in the automotive section at the county library. Most other manual's such as Chilton's just go from Dura Spark II to EEC-IV and completely jump over EEC-III.

Scott

 

I know this is a late response. I was looking thru old posts, but for anyone needing info for the EEC III system, Chilton's Guide to Electronic Engine Controls is an excellent book. I looked high and low about 10 years ago for any info on my engine (5.8L w/EEC III). I had a Chiltons manual and a Haynes--neither even mentioned the EEC III. But Chilton's Guide to Electronic Engine Controls was a gold mine. ISBN 0-8019-7535-2. I provided that info 'cause it's probably out of print and you might have a hard time finding it.

I too, have a Holley 2300 replacement for my 7200VV and just had to rebuild it then tweak it for idle mix.

 

Oh, dang it, I forgot-- you can get diagnostic codes from EEC III but it's kinda funky. Using a vaccuum pump with gauge, suck the BMAP vent down to 20" mercury or greater for at least five seconds. This is a driving condition which is impossible, except maybe on Mount Everest, or the moon, so the computer knows to initiate self-test. After five seconds, release the vaccuum pump and self test will start and go for about a minute. Failure codes are tapped out on the TAB/TAD solenoids. You can see them with a volt meter, or I made some LEDs with resistors inline to see the codes flash.

 

Mtbiker--Dave,

Well it seems there are a "few" of us with the EEC III here in California.....

I too had a problem with those darned relays clicking. Mine started when I installed an MSD system in my truck--81' 351w.

I eventually found and resolved the problem by dis-connecting the factory noise supressor on the + side of the coil.
The relay "clicking" went away and the truck has passed smog with no problems ever since.

Hope this little tid-bit helps !!!
California is tough !!!

Bob

 

old&confused, thanks for the tip on the Chilton's Guide to Electronic Engine Controls. I have a similar Haynes book, but they only mention EEC-III long enough to say that it's rare and they aren't going to waste print on it!

So tell us more about these failure codes tapped out on the TAB/TAD solenoids. Did you find about this in the Chilton's Guide, and do they list the code there? Which wires do you connect the volt meter to read the code?

Glad you and Bob both decided to check into this thread.

Scott

 

OK. Let's see...

First of all, the Chilton's book explains the entire system in detail. I flipped when I found it.

The failure codes are output to the TAB/TAD solenoids on the passenger side of the engine (should be two solenoids mounted together). The book says the codes are indicated on both solenoids at the same time, but on mine I got them only on the one nearest the passenger compartment. The other one just had a really short blip for each time the good one showed a valid half-second pulse.

"Each pulse is on for one-half second and off for on-half second. This sequence represents the number one (1). The solenoids are off for a full second before starting the second digit of the code. In the case of multiple service codes, the solenoids are off for five full seconds between two-digit codes." The book goes on to say that in the event of multiple codes, consider the final code first.

It's a little tricky to see because during the test the solenoids go on and off for certain parts of the test before the service codes appear.

The LEDs I made came from Radio Shack. Get a couple of 30mA LEDs (yellow is a good visible color). Get some 470 ohm resistors too. Solder a lead of a resistor inline with the lead of the LED. I don't think it matters but I put my resistor on the negative side of the LED (which will have the shorter lead, or if you look thru the LED it will be the larger of the two electrodes). Then put the leads (the free end of the resistor and the free end of the LED) across the solenoid, observing proper polarity. Use a volt meter to make sure which side is positive

Also, I tried using one of those little 12V test lights but it had too low resistance and loaded down the solenoid, thus causing failures. You can use a volt meter to see the codes too. An analog meter would probably work better because the digital ones appear somewhat erratic. On an analog meter you'll see the pulses pretty clearly.

Codes are as follows:
11 EEC System OK
12 RPM out of spec
21 Engine coolant temperature sensor fault
22 Manifold absolute sensor fault
23 Throttle position sensor fault (possibly not adjusted right)
31 EGR position sensor fails to open
32 EGR position sensor fails to close
41 Fuel control lean
42 Fuel control rich
43 Engine temperature reading below 120 F
44 Thermactor air system (TAB/TAD) fault

And that's it. Not nearly as many diagnostics as EEC IV.

...and after all this trouble, I got my truck to pass smog by rebuilding the carb! To adjust the idle mix screws, I monitored the O2 sensor voltage while tweaking the screws.

Hope that helps.

 

That helps a lot, thanks! I'm gonna see if I can order that book through Barnes and Noble. Thanks too for giving the details on how you made a code reader with the LED's.

Just to make sure I got this right: If I see two 1/2 second pulses, then a 1 second pause, followed by three 1/2 second pulses... that would be code #23?

BTW: I have a list of EEC-III component resistance values. It includes most of the solenoids and sensors, except for the BMAP sensor. Let me know if you would like any or all of these and I'll post back with them. I also have the procedure for aligning the distributor rotor, if the Chilton's manual didn't mention that.

Well who knows, maybe someday one of us will find a flow chart of the way EEC-III processes information. You know, like an IF THEN sub-routine. There had to have been one sometime!

Scott

 

Two pulses, one-second delay, three pulses. Yep. That's 23.

Resistance values might be helpful, but I think they're all in the Chilton's book but you have to muddle throught the troubleshooting chart. If it's not too much trouble, let's have 'em!

I didn't think it was possible to align the distributor rotor. Except for the initial alignment of the shaft position, I thought the distributor was pretty much locked in place even though it looks like any old distributor where you loosen the hold-down and rotate it. I thought the computer did ALL the timing.

 

Yes the computer controls all the timing. EEC-III automaticaly adjusts the distributor advance. You can't set the timing by rotating the distributor. But the computer needs a reference from TDC in order to be accurate.

Here's the procedure to align the reference point:

1. Set the crank on #1 cyl compression stroke, TDC.

2. Remove cap and rotor.

3. Look at the notch in the distributor shaft and the adaptor. Now turn the crankshaft until the small notch in the shaft lines up the the notch in the adapter. If the marks on the harmonic balancer are still between plus or minus 4 degrees of TDC, the distributor is in alignment.

4. If it's off by more than four degrees, turn the crankshaft back to TDC.

5. Loosen the two bolts on the sleeve the distributor shaft goes through.

6. Insert a screwdriver into the small notch in the distributor shaft and turn it to align with the notch in the adapter.

7. Tighten the bolts in the sleeve holding the shaft. Reinstall rotor and cap.

Here's a photo of the small notch in the shaft aligned the the notch in the adapter as seen through the adapter:




I'm sure you already know this, but one thing I should mention for anyone else interested in EEC-III distributors...

The firing order is normal 351w:
1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

The the order the wires are arranged on the cap is:
1-5-7-8-6-3-4-2

This is because the EEC-III distributor has electrodes on both sides of the rotor. So it fires alternately from both sides. So even though it's wired in a different order, if you go back and forth from one side to the other, the firing order is the same.



More on EEC-III...

EEC-III COMPONENT RESISTANCE VALUES

Component.... Wire Colors.... Resistance (Ohms)

Crankshaft Position (CP) Sensor.... Gray-Dk Blue.... 100-640
Engine Coolant (ECT) Sensor.... Lt Grn/Yel-Blk/Wht.... 1100-8000
Air Charge Temp. (ACT) Sensor (EFI).... Lt Grn/Ppl-Blk/Wht.... 1700-60,000
Throttle Position (TP) Sensor
Closed Throttle.... Org/Wht-Blk/Wht.... 3000-5000
Closed Throttle.... Dk Grn/Lt Grn-Blk/Wht.... 550-1100
Wide Open Throttle.... Dk Grn/Lt Grn-Blk/Wht.... More than 2100
EGR Control Solenoid.... Red-Yel.... More than 30
EGR Vent Solenoid.... Red-Dk Grn.... More than 30
Throttle Kicker (TK) Solenoid.... Red-Red/Lt Grn.... More than 45
TAB Solenoid.... Red-Wht/Red.... 45-90
TAD Solenoid.... Red-Lt Grn/Blk.... 45-90
Fuel Pump Relay.... Red-Tan/Lt Grn.... More than 40
By-Pass Ballast Resistor.............. Less than 3
Feedback Motor (FBCA).... See Note 1.... 32-150
Note 1: Measured from center terminal (above blank) to each
other terminal.

 

Thanks, horse. Good info.

I thought up a good way to test the feedback stepper motor too. In a panic to pass the smog test, I ordered one from partsamerica.com with rush shipping for about $100. Then, when I got home from work the same day I decided to experiment. The experiment worked. The motor was good, so I cancelled the order and saved $$.

Get a 9-volt battery and some kind of leads (or just wire will do) to connect it as follows: Connect the positive side to the common pin on the motor (middle pin in the row with three pins). Put a finger on the end of the motor so you can feel it move. Then touch the negative side of the battery (the lead connected to the (-) side, that is) to each of the other pins. If the stepper motor is all the way retracted, connecting the (-) lead to only one of the pins will do anything. Just keep trying till you hit the right one. You should feel the shaft of the motor move out a tiny bit. Then start touching the (-) lead to the other pins in a criss-cross order. If you do it right the shaft will move out each time. If you get out of sequence you will feel either nothing, or you will feel the shaft move back in a notch. If you do it right 120 times in a row, the shaft should be out about 0.4 inch. Then be sure to do it all backward again to get the shaft back fully in.

You won't find that in any book. It's an old&confused original!

 

120 times in a row and then back again?!!! I'm going to grow old and confused trying to get that one right!

Thanks for all your help!

Scott

 

you guys are amazing. i didn't even ask my question and you all replied with more then i could imagine.
i've been passing smog ok until this dyno/NO crap. after putting in a catalytic converter (only one, not both) i still failed on the 15mph, not the 25mph or anywhere else. the *******s.

now not sure what to do except check out the vacuum wiring (downloaded from autozone already, thank you) and electrically test a thing or two. add some gas additive again maybe.

how do i know if my engine is EEC-III or not? when does it matter anyway?

the guy before changed out the carb with a holley also, i wonder if it's the one you guys are mentioning. i'll try and find a number on it.

and i'll buy a vacuum hand-pump just so i can do that incrediably primitive diagnostics test. too cool.

thanks!
michael