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  #1  
Old 01-17-2011, 02:32 PM
rikosintie rikosintie is offline
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Sad V10 Owner

I was towing my 10,000lb toyhauler out to the Superstition Moutain OHV area from El Cajon, CA on new year's eve with my 2002 Excursion with 61,000 miles on it. The temperature was in the 30's on the mountain pass and I was running 4000-4500 RPM quite a bit.

I have read on the Excursion forum that it is no problem for the V10 and I have done it a lot on 90-110 degree days with no problem over the last 7 years. But I guess the much cooler temperatures caused a lean condition that melted the #4 spark plug. It dropped debris into they cylinder. Below is the dealers estimate for the repair.

The sad thing is I had a 5Star tuner on my todo list for the holidays but didn't get around to it. Now I need the tuner and the repairs!
Michael

25.0 HOURS OF LABOR $2,225.00
Parts $1,776.77
8.75 % Tax $155.47
ESTIMATE TOTAL $4,157.24
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:54 PM
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Wow! Sorry to hear that.

I wonder if it would be better to get a rebuilt V10 for that amount of money. At least you could sell back the core and recoup some of the cost.
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:22 PM
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How hard would it be to put a 3v v10 in it instead?
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:01 PM
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What in the heck are they doing to it that it needs 25 hours of labor?

And what parts are they changing for that much money?

Forget the 3-valve unless you have the time to fabricate up some stuff...
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:21 PM
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Isn't that engine still under warranty?
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:34 PM
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Was there any indication that something was going wrong? Are they replacing the entire motor or repairing the affected part?
I don't abuse my truck bby any means, but its a gas motor, it goes to 4500 pretty often.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:16 PM
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OK, I should have posted a lot more detail.
JH818, that was sure my first thought but I decided to have them repair mine. I have taken good care of it (Up till this!) and figured it should still be a good engine.

Krewat, that includes the diagnostic hours. The parts list will help a lot.

Thombb;
It is a 2002 model, I can't imagine it would be under warranty. Do you have a magic bullet for me?

Vaxb;
No, I heard some detonation and immediately backed out of it. The wife was talking to me and I may have not noticed it immediately. Mark at 5 Star said this isn't uncommon. He said the 2010, 2011 models will go in Open loop on the FI and NOT lean out to the point of engine damage. BTW, I was running Bosch +4 plugs. A quick Google found several postings (car sites) of the plug failing mechanically and damaging the engine under lean conditions. I Don't have any facts that I can present to verify that. Will have a better idea once I get the parts back.

I also baby the truck, that is one reason I didn't have the 5 star tuner. My thinking was that I would take it easy and slow down on the mountain passes. I usually do that and only stay at 4500 for a short time. But this time I was following an F350 Diesel and didn't know where the campsite was. He said if I dropped back he would slow down and wait but I felt bad and kept my foot in it. Since it was cold I didn't think it would be a problem - backward logic for a lean condition. I was watching the trans and oil temp and they never moved.

Once I get the parts back I will photo and post.
Michael

Qty Description Price Each Total
1 CYLINDER HEAD $975.06 $975.06
1 PISTON $76.58 $76.58
1 ROD $60.61 $60.61
2 BEARING SET $5.01 $10.02
1 RINGS $39.50 $39.50
10 SPARK PLUGS $3.86 $38.60
1 COIL $61.26 $61.26
12 HEAD BOLTS $5.44 $65.28
1 HEAD SET $207.26 $207.26
1 LOWER SET $92.60 $92.60
1 OIL, MIS FLUIDS $150.00 $150.00
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  #8  
Old 01-17-2011, 08:30 PM
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WOW!! I don't know what to say. I feel for ya though. For that kind of money I think I would lean toward a new motor. Have not heard of good things with Bosch spark plugs in these motors but never heard of them melting. Good luck, John
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  #9  
Old 01-17-2011, 08:54 PM
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Mark Walton
That's a bummer. I've run mine under similar conditions up the long grades in the Rockies and other places, although I conciously try and keep it under 4000 rpm. I'm sure I've spiked it well beyond that. May I ask, when you tow do you use different (IE Premium) fuel?
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  #10  
Old 01-17-2011, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikosintie View Post
OK, I should have posted a lot more detail.
JH818, that was sure my first thought but I decided to have them repair mine. I have taken good care of it (Up till this!) and figured it should still be a good engine.

Krewat, that includes the diagnostic hours. The parts list will help a lot.

Thombb;
It is a 2002 model, I can't imagine it would be under warranty. Do you have a magic bullet for me?

Vaxb;
No, I heard some detonation and immediately backed out of it. The wife was talking to me and I may have not noticed it immediately. Mark at 5 Star said this isn't uncommon. He said the 2010, 2011 models will go in Open loop on the FI and NOT lean out to the point of engine damage. BTW, I was running Bosch +4 plugs. A quick Google found several postings (car sites) of the plug failing mechanically and damaging the engine under lean conditions. I Don't have any facts that I can present to verify that. Will have a better idea once I get the parts back.

I also baby the truck, that is one reason I didn't have the 5 star tuner. My thinking was that I would take it easy and slow down on the mountain passes. I usually do that and only stay at 4500 for a short time. But this time I was following an F350 Diesel and didn't know where the campsite was. He said if I dropped back he would slow down and wait but I felt bad and kept my foot in it. Since it was cold I didn't think it would be a problem - backward logic for a lean condition. I was watching the trans and oil temp and they never moved.

Once I get the parts back I will photo and post.
Michael

Qty Description Price Each Total
1 CYLINDER HEAD $975.06 $975.06
1 PISTON $76.58 $76.58
1 ROD $60.61 $60.61
2 BEARING SET $5.01 $10.02
1 RINGS $39.50 $39.50
10 SPARK PLUGS $3.86 $38.60
1 COIL $61.26 $61.26
12 HEAD BOLTS $5.44 $65.28
1 HEAD SET $207.26 $207.26
1 LOWER SET $92.60 $92.60
1 OIL, MIS FLUIDS $150.00 $150.00
defenitly a bummer but.. you got options, one reman and it wll come with a warranty for about that price installed with core returned, or you re work the motor you got. if you deside to go this way perhaps a gear head would be better at putting this motor together. i'am just saying a guy payed 100 bucks an hour to a guy paid 60 bucks with the same knowledge. just a thought.

aswell there some parts on the list you can really save some money on if you go to the wreckers. check this site out car-parts.com you'll be able to find a great cylinder head for a third the price along with the con rod and piston. not sure what a headset is or lower set either...

you have any wrench skills?
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2011, 10:34 PM
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All;
Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions! It is a sad situation when you have a major unexpected repair bill. On the "every cloud has a silver lining" side it did get me back home and the dealer said that they inspected all 10 cylinders and only 4 was damaged. They did a leak test\compression test on all 10. The truck only has 61,13 miles on it. This is a Ford medium duty truck center, not an auto dealer. I have seen a lot big trucks with the heads off in the shop. That doesn't guarantee it will be right but to see repeat business customers gave me some trust.

Cay5628;
No, I was running 87 octane. That is a thought though. i may switch ot mid grade or high test after this. You can bet that I will be ordering a 5 star tuner as soon as I get it back. I have had the Ex since December 2002 and it has always been the tow truck! I seldom drive it without the trailer. I have never had a single issue with it. I do engine oil every 3K (Rotella T synthetic) and have the trans serviced every 25K.

Skoda;
I have rebuilt a v8 and swapped it in and out of a car before but nothing like the EX. That was a '69 mustang so no computers, etc. Also, I live in a typical So Cal tract house so I don't have much of a place to work on it.

I have a good mechanic that would work for $60 per hour but unfortunately he had shoulder surgery over the holidays. It will be a couple months before he is back at his shop. He thought the hours were a little fat but that the parts prices were reasonable. He didn't know the estimate included the diagnostic work when he commented.

That estimate does include the diagnostic work. I don't have a feeling for how long it takes to do a leak down\compression check on a V10. Plus, I doubt that they did that first. You can see a coil in the parts list. I suspect, that just like me, they replaced the coil and plug on #3 first since the OBD was showing P303 misfire on cylinder 3. Then based on what I read here they probably swapped the new coil around to the other cylinders. I found a post here explaining why the OBDII didn't turn on the check engine light or give much data relating to the problem. It said for vehicles with GVWR above a certain value the mfg can omit many OBDII requirements.

When I checked it in the desert using my Equuis 3130 and saw P303 I figured an hour and $70 in parts when I got home and it would be back to normal. That turned into several hours surfing the V10 forum and trying everything I found. After a fuel filter, coil, plug, PCV valve, Air filter, checking for vacuum leaks, resetting the computer, etc. I figured the dealers computer diagnostics were in order. Funny thing is that #3 was fine. The problem was #4.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:01 PM
rikosintie rikosintie is offline
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Krewrat was the one that posted the link about OBDI vs OBDII that I found enlightening before I took the Ex to the dealer.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/51...t-come-on.html
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:02 PM
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I'd be calling Bosch and COMPLAINING VERY LOUDLY and possibly calling a lawyer. But this is not an OK to organize a law suit on FTE (read the guidelines)
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:10 PM
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Our high miles V10 in F250 we rev 5-6K rpm and have no trouble. Expect it drink alot oil.

We only use Ford parts on engine so none of this happened.


I think you should call Bosch with lawyer.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:27 PM
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rikosintie,
I feel your pain I too was towing my toy-hauler the day after Christmas and my 2005 v10 went south on me also. Temperature was about 38 degree going uphill at about 4500 when it let go. I took it to a truck center also and was told something in the bottom was broken. Not wanting to spend the money to tear down the motor and having 80,000 on the motor I decided to replace it with a new long block. Price tag is going to be around $6700.00. Warranty is for 3 year - 100,000 miles.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:27 PM
 
 
 
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