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1968-2013 Full Size Vans Econolines. E150, E250, E350, E450 and E550

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  #31  
Old 01-11-2011, 05:00 AM
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Mr 65F1005.8 that's a very slick set-up you have with the Hayden products---I'd forgotten all about them until seeing your post===thanks for posting something more on topic! We started out talking radiator cooling now we're bantering about intake filters and other modifications unrelated. Before this thread runs into even more conversations not related I'll add some information from Flex-A-Lite.

They say for a normal E van with 5.4 gas motor their kit 295/298 is suitable. Its dual 13.5" fans with misc brackets and the variable speed controller included (295, 298 w/o VSC.) The available downloadable instruction sheet is detailed in electrical connections only, actual mounting of fans/shrouds falls to the owner. Cost online so far is about $450 which is about average from the 5-6 sellers I've found.

Hayden's products are a bit less expensive but you do have create your own kit so to speak---cost runs between $300-$400 depending what items and options you select. Their website seems to include enough information to help the average DIY'er select the best fans and controls for their particular needs. I'm guessing they would have a recommended list of parts for a particular application/vehicle as well.

Regarding the Hayden fans only cooling relatively small areas that seems a bit nit picking. While its true to a degree the fact heat is removed from the coolant during its travel through the radiator is mostly what's important. Temperature differences from entry point to exit point is always different which is their function. Almost regardless where the heat is removed as along as the leaving temp is suitable that would be the main consideration. If just one high flow fan were located at entry or exit and it sufficiently removed unwanted heat the job is done.

The first fan will probably do the bulk of the work, secondary in event sensed coolant temp temporarily exceeds the set point considered safe for the engine/radiator. Whether its a Flex-A-Lite or Hayden system the principles are the same so I don't see a huge disadvantage to either.

Thanks again 65F1005.8--------very good photos and interesting results---exactly what I was hoping to find here!
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  #32  
Old 01-15-2011, 03:36 AM
neil 95 e350 neil 95 e350 is offline
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i feel the need to chime in here.

i own a '95 E350 extended van with a 460 and an E4OD tranny. i decided to start modifying my van the day i got it. Thorley Tri-Y's > 3.5" pipe welded to the front of the cat/ 3" out thru a Flowmaster 70. got tired of the K&N filter material getting sucked out of the filter screening and decided that Ford was nuts to use the same filter on a 2L ford car as they did on my 7.5L van. put on a BBk dual 61mm throttle body on, ported the upper manifold, modd'ed the van intake hoses and hung a K&N for an F350 where my battery used to live. put in an MSD 6al also. dog house got a second layer of insulation from DEI's product line and all factory heat shields were installed correctly

i also have a nicely modified E4OD with a large stacked plate cooler (Earls) in front of the radiator as well as another earls cooler for engine oil. when i added the coolers, i removed the factory oil/water heat exchanger for a nice expensive billet adapter w/ -10AN fittings. plumbing the two coolers ran over $1k using all earls hose and ends - tranny is plumbed with -6 AN.

i installed a mechanical oil temp gauge in my remote mount oil filter, a mechanical temp gauge in the tranny oil pan, and a mechanical water temp gauge - sender installed in the intake manifold about 2" from the factory sender. all gauges are autometer and were checked for accuracy prior to installation.

in the quest for better mileage, i decided to redesign the factory cooling system and run electric fans. i have front/rear air and heat and a brass rad with the eng oil cooler built into the oil filter head (factory setup).

bought two flex-a-lite 16" electric fans - their highest CFM rated ones. built a new fan shroud with the fans exactly distanced from the rad as spec'ed by flex-a-lite. portions of the new shroud that were not cut away for the fans were set up with rubber flapsso that at fwy speeds the air could flow thru as freely as poss but at low speeds the flaps would be pulled closed by the fans and thus pull all air thru the core.

used a flex-a-lite fan controller and overall the 3 cooling systems seemed to work ok. tranny rarely got above 180, engine oil ran around 220 and the cooling system and interior hot air seemed ok. but the passenger compartment was no longer comfortable. well i dunno about anyone else but i wasn't happy. heat from the engine and from the headers was making life uncomfortable.

in the end i concluded that that big slow turning factory fan moves one heck of a lot of air thru the doghouse which results in liveable temps for the driver/pass up front. even tho the radiator may not need cooling the doghouse does. i believe that is why i have yet to see an aftermarket company offer an electric fan setup specifically for vans.

but i liked the throttle response and just hated the thought of running a mechanical fan. SO... i reinstalled the oil>water heat exchanger/filter and put the oil temp sender in it. i moved both accessory coolers under the van on the frame rail and set up each cooler with a 9" Zirgo fan and a thermostatic switch/relay. so nothing in front of the radiator except for the A/C condenser... i replaced the '95 rad with an aluminum core/plastic tank Excursion rad. yes it is just a little taller than my old one so i rebuilt the core support to accept it. i installed the two 16" fans on it down low and added 3 9" Zirgo fans across the top. the outside two run all the time and blow air over the heads and headers. the other three are set up with a two stage controller. they all will run if the a/c is on and the vehicle speed is below 45mph. conversely if the van's speed exceeds 45mph all fans turn off (there is a seperate control box tied to Vss that handles this chore.) and i have the temp gauges to tell me if i need to override this feature.

i also found that i had to run a balanced thermostat - not just the basic flat plate Stant. the one i use can from the dealer and looks like the old Robertshaw cup style. without it the van would never come up to temp - and yes the t-stat was checked out. same thing happened with another new Stant. and i have used stant reliably for years in other vehicles...

oil temp is stuck at 180, water temp is stuck at 190, tranny temp rarely hits 180, and the floor and space around me is now liveable again.

just my 2 cents
neil
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  #33  
Old 01-15-2011, 12:33 PM
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Neil thanks for sharing all that---quite a refit AND write up as well! Two things though..........

What is a balanced thermostat-----got a part number perhaps? That's intriguing and I've never heard of such a thing in automotive use.

I'm wondering if the increased temps on the passenger side wasn't more from the headers heat warming the metal floorboards more than sneaking in through the fiberglass doghouse? Headers are notorious for radiating heat so the floors would be the perfect heat sink. If so insulating the doghouse wouldn't have reduced the header heat much, minimally at best.

I notice a few comments on this entire board that vans have potential heat issues due the engine being "under" the body, that the pickups flow more air past everything so its not noticed. Honestly I don't think there can be that big a difference in how air flows across the engines of vans vs pickups. My E250 with gas 5.4 seems to sit high enough above the ground so that driving would force air from the front grill over the engine and eventually exit just as easily as the lower slung and tigher firewall I see on the pickups.

I like your idea of a new shroud since it might help direct the air just a bit better than a cut up stock piece. If those flaps work well another great idea--I've seen similar arrangements on smaller foreign cars on occasion.

Sounds like you're the coolest cat here so far! Thanks for your post!
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  #34  
Old 01-15-2011, 07:33 PM
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YES, headers heat up the doghouse and floor, to be honest, performance gains from them are only at high RPMs, something you just don't need with a van, I'd stick with the factory manifolds as you're not racing.
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  #35  
Old 01-16-2011, 06:37 AM
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Neil: What were the fuel economy gains from the new set-up?
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  #36  
Old 01-16-2011, 02:48 PM
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pardon me, i realize that i should have made it clear that i drove the van for 10 years before removing the factory mechanical fan. and it was about three years with just the two 16" electric fans before assaulting the radiator and adding fans and relocating the oil/tranny coolers... the initial oil & tranny cooler install was done many years back.

open this link and read a good explanation for what a balanced thernostat is and does:
FlowKooler Automobile Water Pumps - Chevy, Dodge, Jeep, Ford, and more
(with thanx to the flowkooler folks)

yes the floorboards were picking up heat. i surmised it was due to the lack of airflow due to the removal of the stock mechanical fan. so far, the two 9" fans seem to be moving enuff air to keep temps underhood/underdoghouse from radiating into the floorboards.

fuel economy has slowly drifted to about 14mpg. more if i drive the speed limit.

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  #37  
Old 01-16-2011, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil 95 e350 View Post
pardon me, i realize that i should have made it clear that i drove the van for 10 years before removing the factory mechanical fan. and it was about three years with just the two 16" electric fans before assaulting the radiator and adding fans and relocating the oil/tranny coolers... the initial oil & tranny cooler install was done many years back.

open this link and read a good explanation for what a balanced thernostat is and does:
FlowKooler Automobile Water Pumps - Chevy, Dodge, Jeep, Ford, and more
(with thanx to the flowkooler folks)

yes the floorboards were picking up heat. i surmised it was due to the lack of airflow due to the removal of the stock mechanical fan. so far, the two 9" fans seem to be moving enuff air to keep temps underhood/underdoghouse from radiating into the floorboards.

fuel economy has slowly drifted to about 14mpg. more if i drive the speed limit.

neil
Did you install an oil thermostat on engine cooler lines?

What was the MPG with the OEM Fan?
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  #38  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:52 PM
neil 95 e350 neil 95 e350 is offline
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yes, i do have a thermostat on the engine oil cooler. plus i run a dual filter remote bracket and use the old 2qt Fram filters.

10mpg. rain shine loaded unloaded towing not towing driving fast driving slow. 10mpg
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  #39  
Old 01-17-2011, 11:55 AM
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Don't feel bad, the 5.4 is the same in the E-350, city is 10 MPG, highway I've seen 15 MPG, but not lately I'm afraid.
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  #40  
Old 01-17-2011, 03:44 PM
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On the headers note, my floorboards also heat up due to my headers but they did it the same before and after my electric fans. I plan to install heat sheild mats on the floor boards, my doghouse doesn't seem to run that hot though.

as far as power gains go for LT headers, at least on 5.4l, the low rpm power gains are huge compared to the high rpm gains.

here is a post from f150online showing dyno results
http://www.f150online.com/forums/exh...install-5.html

summarized max power gains 6hp/6tq, stock 5.4l F-150 with stock tune.

3000rpm: before:140/240
after:160/280

4500rpm:before: 210/245
after: 220/250
Those are also rear wheel numbers meaning they are greater than shown.
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  #41  
Old 01-17-2011, 06:33 PM
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Vans are different than trucks, the same headers will not fit and it's not likely they offer them for vans, heat is a big issue, headers are not worth it.
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  #42  
Old 01-17-2011, 09:21 PM
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that sounds like more of an opinion than a fact. the truck 5.4 headers fit mine and it's the same tranny, engine, weight, gearing, and in most cases usage is similar also. what makes them so different that headers are for sure without a doubt factually "not worth it"? I love the sound, performance, fuel efficiency, looks, and just about everything from my headers, but thats just one mans OPINION and experience.
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  #43  
Old 01-18-2011, 04:59 AM
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There are many, many things "not worth it........" but that tends to be subjective and doesn't apply to everyone in every situation. I've seen modifications on this forum I thought were way over the top and no doubt I've made some of my own as well. In fact I posted about an engine pre-oiling system I installed and a few of the supposed experienced didn't waste any words telling me it was completely unnecessary.

Headers when engineered correct ARE improvements over stock cast iron exhaust manifolds---that has never been disputed except by those who need to bash or criticize their installation. Were I looking for higher performance headers would be one of the first places I'd look first for a simple bolt on improvement. They do require periodic checking for loose bolts etc but that's not a huge time investment for the benefit they potentially provide.

If a modification makes the vehicle owner happy that alone makes it worth it regardless who says its not! BTW thanks for your real world experience Mr 65F1005.8----interesting if only because you've done it and not just spouting something that might be only opinion!
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  #44  
Old 01-18-2011, 07:43 AM
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This thread has been a good read.
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  #45  
Old 01-18-2011, 03:55 PM
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Tell you what, I've seen nothing but problems from headers, from rusting away to constant leaks, none experienced with stock manifolds, and on a stock engine, they are a waste of time and money. Modifications where headers benefit are internal engine changes, the thing is, people see what they want to justify a purchase.
Electric fans are a great idea, the vans don't have them currently because Ford builds them for the commercial market, only necessities are installed, conversion vans get special treatment from another company after assembly. Due to heat and room restraint, they have less horsepower than the trucks, diesels especially, unfortunately the later diesel engines being less dependable lost Ford their commanding lead in the commercial market, no more monopoly in the ambulance field.
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:55 PM
 
 
 
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