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6.4 with 210 spartan tune on B100

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Old 12-23-2010, 06:17 PM
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6.4 with 210 spartan tune on B100

So I have been looking around and havenít run into anyone running tunes on B100 or really B100 in a none tuned truck for that matter. I was concerned since this engine has a HP common rail fuel system that there may be problems running this fuel. So I wanted to see for myself, worse cause i am ready to upgrade the fuel system anyways so if major problems arise my original plans will be accelerated. I recently purchased a biodiesel processor and am going to give it a try, so far I have ran 180 gallons of B100 Iíve made with no issues and still using the Spartan 210 tune. The only things that have changed are about a 2 tenth drop in fuel mileage and a slightly different exhaust smell and very little black smoke.

I am being very tedious with the fuel I am making to follow an ASTM grade B100 fuel quality.

Just curious if anyone else has tried this or has thought about it.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:20 PM
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What about an additive to ensure your HPFP is getting some lubrication?
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:28 PM
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What about an additive to ensure your HPFP is getting some lubrication?
From what I have read and studied the B100 actually has a lot more lubrication values in it VS conventional USLD petroleum diesel.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:33 PM
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Well that is good. I guess that would be my only concern.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:40 PM
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B-2 has more lube than diesel......
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:12 PM
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I'd be concerned with an awful lot more than simple lubrication.

FUEL DILUTION

MORE ON FUEL DILUTION

GASKET, SEAL PROBLEMS

Halfway down page:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biodiesel Education Network
B100 will have a negative impact on Buna and Nitrile seals; however, Teflon and Viton are more suitable for higher blends or neat biodiesel. If you plan on using biodiesel at 20% or under, you most likely will have negligible headaches with sealing compounds. See the NREL Handling and Use Guidelines for more information
Fuel gelling:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biodiesel Eduation Network
A. Biodiesel manufactured from soy has a cloud and pour point of approximately 32F while yellow grease and tallow ranges in the fifty degree area. When blending biodiesel manufactured from any feed stock it is equally important to access the best base stock (relating to cold properties) with your biodiesel.
Anti-gel doesn't work:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biodiesel Education Network
A. Whereas fuel additives are not effective in neat biodiesel our outreach and communication efforts have included recommendation on adhering to appropriate storage, blending and distribution efforts. These recommendations include keeping the biodiesel heated to a minimum of ten degrees above the posted cloud point of the biodiesel while ensuring that the diesel fuel which it is blended is both additized and blended with kerosene to meet the expected low temperatures of the specific market which the product is being handled and sold.
Causes problems with brass and zinc fittings:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biodiesel Education Network
A. Use of tanks or lines made of brass, bronze, copper, lead, tin or zinc may cause high sediment formation and promote filter clogging. They are not recommended with B100, or for that matter generic heating oil as well. This is why additive companies are including metal deactivators in premium heating oil packages to tie up the yellow metals so as not to accelerate corrosive act ivies within the storage tanks which the fuel is stored.
Your engine is spec'd to run maximum of B5; if you have a fuel system problem running anything in excess of 5% bio, your warranty will not help you. Ford has been known to send lab techs out to take fuel samples before approving major warranty work.

Replacing your fuel system can cost upwards of $9,000 depending on which dealer does the work. Should you damage an injector and cause engine failure the repair can cost upwards of $15,000. I STRONGLY recommend staying far, far away from B100 with a 6.4L engine.

Use it at your own risk.
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy001 View Post
I'd be concerned with an awful lot more than simple lubrication.

FUEL DILUTION

MORE ON FUEL DILUTION

GASKET, SEAL PROBLEMS

Halfway down page:



Fuel gelling:



Anti-gel doesn't work:



Causes problems with brass and zinc fittings:



Your engine is spec'd to run maximum of B5; if you have a fuel system problem running anything in excess of 5% bio, your warranty will not help you. Ford has been known to send lab techs out to take fuel samples before approving major warranty work.

Replacing your fuel system can cost upwards of $9,000 depending on which dealer does the work. Should you damage an injector and cause engine failure the repair can cost upwards of $15,000. I STRONGLY recommend staying far, far away from B100 with a 6.4L engine.

Use it at your own risk.

I would not suggest this to anyone who is not informed with Biodiesel, I have done a good amount of research prior to deciding to try this, I am trying this simply because I haven’t seen it done and people seem to say it wont work without hard facts.

Well it’s not hard to test your own biodiesel to know its cloud and gel point, which I have. My Fuel is primarily soy based and shows no issues down to 26 degrees, in my region our coldest days are around 28 degrees. In southern Nevada. There are products available specifically for biodiesel that do stop the Biodiesel form gelling. People rarely talk about them because of there cost and the fact its much simpler to blend in diesel for winter use.

As far as the interaction with metals yes I agree raw biodiesel is corrosive. Properly washed and processed ASTM grade Biodiesel should have a neutral PH and should not cause such issues.

Warranty wise with no doubt you are correct, anything over B5 would void the warranty out, but as I mentioned I am not to worried about that as I can easily do all the repairs myself.

It will be intresting when i send out my first oil sample to see what the affects of any dilution has on the oil
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:36 AM
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[QUOTE=SANDDEMON08;9727313]I My Fuel is primarily soy based and shows no issues down to 26 degrees

I have ran for years , B100 is good down to 50* f any lower and you will have problems. B50 - 40*f B20 - 25*f (FILTERS, FILTERS) Bio works better the hotter temps. with the 7.3s
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SANDDEMON08 View Post
I would not suggest this to anyone who is not informed with Biodiesel, I have done a good amount of research prior to deciding to try this, I am trying this simply because I havenít seen it done and people seem to say it wont work without hard facts.

Well itís not hard to test your own biodiesel to know its cloud and gel point, which I have. My Fuel is primarily soy based and shows no issues down to 26 degrees, in my region our coldest days are around 28 degrees. In southern Nevada. There are products available specifically for biodiesel that do stop the Biodiesel form gelling. People rarely talk about them because of there cost and the fact its much simpler to blend in diesel for winter use.

As far as the interaction with metals yes I agree raw biodiesel is corrosive. Properly washed and processed ASTM grade Biodiesel should have a neutral PH and should not cause such issues.

Warranty wise with no doubt you are correct, anything over B5 would void the warranty out, but as I mentioned I am not to worried about that as I can easily do all the repairs myself.

It will be intresting when i send out my first oil sample to see what the affects of any dilution has on the oil
Sounds good sanddemon, looks like you've done your homework! Let us know how it works out for you!
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Old 12-24-2010, 10:48 AM
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Sounds good sanddemon, looks like you've done your homework! Let us know how it works out for you!
Good or bad i'll keep yeah posted.
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:10 PM
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Well figured id throw an update in its been a couple more weeks now since I have been running this fuel. This last couple weeks has been pretty cold for us, 30-35 to night. Imp also running it in my 6.0 which doesnít seem to like the colder weather, looks like my fuel is only good down to about 38 degrees at B100, I never had any issues with my 6.4 but I am running a little blend now 25/75 diesel and bio so the 6.0 will be happier. I think the fuel return system on the 6.4 helps heat the fuel up a lot faster in the morning than the on my 6.0. Haven't had any filter issues yet. I know it really hasten been that long yet and I havenít used the truck as much as I normally do but so far so good. Including whatís in my tank now I have used about 240 gallons so far.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:55 PM
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Nice! Keep the info coming! Though, I probably wouldn't try it because I don't have the mechanical know how to tackle one of these 6.4's, but it is still really neat to see someone trying it. Maybe one day when I have out driven my warranty I might try it then... Who knows!
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:33 PM
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I have never researched bio at all but apparently the B5 warning for our trucks is due to the DPF??? Thus the reason you potentially wont experience any trouble??
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:20 PM
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Time for an update, well its been another few months and around 300 more gallons with no issues. The only changes i have made is I added a 5 micron filter to the BIO station to improve the fuel quality i was using a 20 micron. 25/75 Diesel/BIO seems to be a good mix no cold weather problems down to 40 degrees. I should have my oil sample back soon to see how much fuel/Bio is getting in the oil over a 3,500.00 mile span, i would have had it earlier but i forgot to drop it off a few times. I have racked up about 8,500 miles so far using this fuel. I haven't changed my fuel filter maintenance still changing the fuel filters every other oil change or about 7000 miles which is what i did prior to switching to Bio diesel.
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Old 03-26-2011, 09:42 AM
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Drain water weekly, fuel filters every other oil change, you will have no problems!
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