Hey guys, with the cold weather lately, I've noticed my truck has developed a new noise from the front axle. It only does it when the truck has sat for a few hours, is completely cold (below 30*), and the hubs are locked. It will only make the noise going forward. I've eliminated brakes and hub assembly as the source since the noise is only made when the hubs are locked, or when the shifter is in 4x4 with the hubs unlocked. Its a squeak, squeak, squeak noise that seems to be with every revolution of the tire and it goes away after driving 50-100 feet. All the u-joints are tight and I can't make the noise spinning the front driveshaft by hand. The brakes have 9000 miles on them with hawk pads and powerstop cryo rotors. Neither hub assembly has play and all the ball joints are tight. I do leave the hubs locked almost year round, so there's probably a good 40k on them.

Any ideas? I was thinking of throwing some new u-joints on and seeing what happened, but I'm guessing the whole axle shaft has to get pulled to do the ones at the steering knuckles?

 

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g3...bumpgz8pv8.gif

Darn, it didnt work...

 

Oh darn... haha.

Thanks for the bump Pat. My truck doesn't like me today (even though she got new tires). The EBPV got stuck shut on the last trip. 35mph in 3rd with the EGT above 1150 and it finally un-stuck it self.

 

Pat,

Copy and paste worked.



Sorry Twags, this is the only help I am.

 

Would bad or going out spindle bearings make a sqealing noises.. Cracking up with that ladies reaction, lol.

 

To demonstrate that I did my best to search for an answer before asking, I resurrected this thread from seven years ago, as it is the closest incident I found that matches a similar dilemma I discovered yesterday... AFTER I lubricated the front wheel bearing (through the ABS hole) as well as the needle bearing that supports the outer stub axle inside the hub.

My noise is exactly as the OP described 7 years ago... a cyclical "squeak squeak squeak" in lock step with the rotation of the axle shaft (driver's side) that occurs only when the axle is actually rotating (ie, only when the hubs are locked).

Going through the line up of usual noise suspects, none are guilty:

• Not springs, because truck is on jack stands
• Not brakes, because the calipers and rotors are removed altogether
• Not the unit bearing, because it doesn't squeak with hubs unlocked
• Not the locking hub, because axle still squeaks with hub lock entirely removed (rotating axle by hand with the hub staying still)

So it really is the axle, and it really sounds like the inner axle in the tube leading to the pumpkin.

The real puzzle is, it never squeaked before. Not until I lubricated the wheel bearing (with Mobil1 Synthetic lithium soap complex grease). Now the axle squeaks.

The wheel bearing is dead silent when rotated in either direction. No noise whatsoever. But when using the hub lock to engage the axle to rotate, or when just rotating the axle itself without the hub, the squeak reappears. It is definitely the axle squeaking, because I can start and stop the squeak at will, by just stopping or starting axle rotation.

What must be changed to address this squeak?

Why did greasing the wheel bearings result in a squeaking axle?

 

I'm leaning on a bearing. Mine did the exact thing roundup on a trip. Made it home, but had to replace stub axle due to a shattered bearing. Only heard it at slow speeds when brakes were applied which multiplied my diagnosis.

Only way to get to the edge of the earth is to walk the walk. Start pulling everything apart until something falls on your floor.

Denny

 

It shouldn't be your stub bearings as they don't actually spin when the hubs are locked, they spin when the hubs are unlocked. Do you think it could be a squeaky inner axle seal in the front diff? Or does it sound like it is consign from the wheel area? Maybe it could be the knuckle seal squeaking too?

As previously suggested, only way to really tell is to start pulling things apart.....

 

Yes, I do.

Which is why the squeak is even more of a puzzle, because how could what I do at the outer wheel end have any effect on what's happening at the inner axle end in the differential?


Sometimes, it's hard to tell. The entire wheel well area is like a giant conch shell... echoing and amplifying and literally focusing all sounds, through parabolic reflection, toward a centroid point in the middle of the wheel well, which is right where both the hub and my head are when I'm listening for the noise.

I don't want to pull things apart without having more of an idea of what I'm going after. Every pull apart requires new seals, and I don't have the seals on hand.

I shudder at how much time it will take for me to research all the part numbers??? of which seals to get (updated dust seal design, etc) and I'm not even sure if the large ORing around the unit bearing is still available separately anymore or not. Since the days of cheap Chinese unit bearing replacements, most people on low budgets just replace the entire unit bearing when digging this deep into it.

I want all the life out of my OEM bearings that I already paid for with the price of the truck. And right now, I don't think the OEM bearings are bad, and it doesn't sound like the OEM bearings are squeaking. (I've only run stock tires, stock wheels, and stock suspension).

The squeak happens with the hub bearings not rotating at all, so it can't be the main part of the hub bearing. Perhaps it could be the little needle bearings that hug the outer stub shaft, which, technically speaking, would mean replacing the entire hub bearing, as they are part of the same unit assembly. But it really does sounds more like it is coming from the inner axle near the differential.

I want to find the folks that can say "ah, I had that happen, and it turned out to be the __________". And this is, of course, exactly the kind of feedback that Diesel Denny posted... but I'm having trouble believing that it is the hub wheel bearings in my case, for all the reasons already cited above and in my previous post. Unless it is the little needle bearings. Is that what failed on you Diesel Denny?

 

Rickster has a point but!!! Regardless if your locked or not............There is a bearing in play. Just sharing what I found. It was my inner (main) and it played like a violin at slow speeds. Stub shaft was wiped and I caught it before I had to do the long walk.

If your hub is locked, the stub stays true with your rotating wheel assy. The main bearing always spins. Your hub bearing at that point, ties the knot with that axle. If your locked up and getting this groan.........point your finger deeper into the hub assy.

JS


Denny

 

Just wanted to expand on my last nights "Beer" statement and go with the morning coffee explanation.

When I experienced this, My inner bearing was badly wiped out. Every rotation of the assy would (For lack of a better term) flop around on the stub shaft.

When lifted, I could spin the tire unweighted and get no noise. (I have all new ball joints so it had to be from the u-joint knuckle out) .

Pulled the hub assy and used a magnet to get all the needle bearings off the floor.

Replaced stub and installed a new hub and we're in business.

While it's true that your stub bearings, both hub bearing (outer) and inner main don't necessarily roll while the hub is locked, they are necessary to keep the angle for true alignment and run-out on the stub shaft itself.

If your getting a chirp like a 3 year old playing a violin, That's my story. Only other thing I can think of is a hanging slide pin on a caliper.

You can try hosing down the axle seal (My outer seal just floats around on the axle like a gypsy which I'm told is no worry) with wd40 and see if it quiets or eliminates the noise temporarily as well.

If this doesn't make sense or is off base, I'm quitting Beer and Coffee.

(please lord, let it be helpful)

Denny

 

ROTFLO!


By "inner bearing", do you mean the small needle bearing that directly contacts the stub axle? Or do you mean the twin opposing Siamese tapered roller cage bearings that are sandwiched on either side of the ABS wheel? These tapered roller bearings are not really visible because they are inside the unit bearing assembly. Is that what you mean by inner? Or do you mean the needle bearings as inner, because the needle bearing outer circumference is "inside" the inner circumference of the tapered roller bearings?


Sorry for the confusion... but I'm quite literal with language, so I need more clarification than most people in order to understand what is being said. I tried to find some photos, but I think you can understand my question and can clear up my confusion without photos... now that you've had your coffee!



This is what makes me think your problem was the little needle bearings, not the tapered roller bearings inside the unit. My understanding is that these needle bearings can be replaced without replacing the unit bearing. My understanding is that the part number for just the needle bearing is C6TZ-3123-A. If this is true, do you think, looking back, that just replacing this bearing (for $10, versus $200+ for a unit bearing assembly) would have shut the violin up inside your axle, had you been able to catch it before it tore up your stub axle?

Oh no, don't do that! Keep drinking!
It is. Reps sent!

 

Letting go of this one. Arranging a car pool group to AA as I speak.

Anyone?

Salute

 

Timken brand needle bearing option p/n B2110 option

 

Thanks Crop Harvester.


While I'm still not precisely sure what Denny was referring to by "inner" bearing, I think all three of us are now referring to the same needle bearing that Crop Harvester provided the Timken part number for (B-2110), which is technically called a Torrington full complement drawn cup bearing.

I pressed this Torrington bearing out of another FTE member's old unit bearing about an hour ago.
























So exercise confirms that the Torrington bearing... the needle assembly that hugs the stub axle... can be removed and replaced without having to buy an entire new unit bearing assembly. However, this is only of benefit if one is certain that the rest of the unit bearing is in tact. And that the stub axle hasn't already been gouged.

Comparing the large and beefy tapered roller bearings inside of the unit bearing assembly to the relatively small and delicate needles of the drawn cup Torrington bearing, it seems reasonable that the Torrington bearing might fail sooner than the tapered roller bearings.

It is important to note that the practice of greasing the unit bearing through the ABS hole sensor will not lubricate this tiny Torrington bearing at all. There is no port in the axle bore of the unit bearing that can communicate grease to the Torrington bearing.

Most suggest that the unit bearing must be removed from the knuckle in order to keep the needle bearing greased, and on two wheel drive vehicles, Ford recommends that this Torrington bearing be regreased every 60,000 miles. That's about where my mileage is now. Another evidentiary sign that it is most likely this Torrington bearing that is squeaking.

Also of note is that Ford replaced this Torrington bearing with a much larger sealed ball bearing in the 2005 and up redesign of the front axle. That is probably not just a coincidence.

Now that I've had a chance to play with these parts, I have devised a method of lubricating this captured Torrington bearing without removing the unit bearing. Without even removing the brake rotor or caliper. I need to test the true effectiveness of my method of grease injection before recommending it. The test will be if the squeak disappears. And that is still assuming that the Torrington bearing is the source of the squeak, and not, say, the inner axle seal.


Still soliciting ideas as well as your experience here...