Truck Jerking/Studdering Around 45-50 mph
#166
07-07-2014, 08:09 AM
#167
07-09-2014, 05:53 PM
Since I last posted about going off to buy the computer I actually started asking around if any of my friends had/have a computer with the ability to do the live scanning and fault traping.
Last night while driving I noticed the shuddering and jerking to happen at different speeds and while driving on level ground and not accelerating. Oddly I was hoping that it was getting worse lol. Luckily the check engine light started flashing and I quickly made my way to the Autozone just down the road. The computer finally threw the code for the misfire on cylinder 2.
Im pretty excited and am looking to go ahead and proceed with focusing on that cylinder.
Im just hesitant to replace just that one though... I know that you (bluegrass) said that you have done this in the past, but what you didnt comment on was how much longer down the road did you have to replace the next ones?
Common sense tells me that while i'm there I should just go ahead and replace the plugs too. But my wallet is begging me not to. Is it okay to just replace the coil+plug+boot for one cylinder? Will this have some sort of cascade effect on the other cylinders?
I know that sounds like a dumb question, but i obviously cant come to my own answer and i dont feel like asking anyone else in my circle of help other than you guys on here lol.
My current plan is to replace the one coil on cylinder on #2 and the plugs on the others. How does that sound? I was also thinking of buying a second plug just in case i notice any visible signs of wear on the other coils durring the change.
Are there any clear signs of a coil gone bad? Any discoloration, melting, build up of any sort?
Thanks for the help, and i hope everyone else with this problem is finding success.
Oh and the cheapest plugs at the local shops are starting at $13 each. Coil packs for $40. Cant buy motorcraft at the stores by me. Only duralast, and Valuecraft/Trugrade... ive used duralast parts in the past and have had no issues... But the fact that bluegrass hasnt talked about them good or bad makes me wonder... lol
Last night while driving I noticed the shuddering and jerking to happen at different speeds and while driving on level ground and not accelerating. Oddly I was hoping that it was getting worse lol. Luckily the check engine light started flashing and I quickly made my way to the Autozone just down the road. The computer finally threw the code for the misfire on cylinder 2.
Im pretty excited and am looking to go ahead and proceed with focusing on that cylinder.
Im just hesitant to replace just that one though... I know that you (bluegrass) said that you have done this in the past, but what you didnt comment on was how much longer down the road did you have to replace the next ones?
Common sense tells me that while i'm there I should just go ahead and replace the plugs too. But my wallet is begging me not to. Is it okay to just replace the coil+plug+boot for one cylinder? Will this have some sort of cascade effect on the other cylinders?
I know that sounds like a dumb question, but i obviously cant come to my own answer and i dont feel like asking anyone else in my circle of help other than you guys on here lol.
My current plan is to replace the one coil on cylinder on #2 and the plugs on the others. How does that sound? I was also thinking of buying a second plug just in case i notice any visible signs of wear on the other coils durring the change.
Are there any clear signs of a coil gone bad? Any discoloration, melting, build up of any sort?
Thanks for the help, and i hope everyone else with this problem is finding success.
Oh and the cheapest plugs at the local shops are starting at $13 each. Coil packs for $40. Cant buy motorcraft at the stores by me. Only duralast, and Valuecraft/Trugrade... ive used duralast parts in the past and have had no issues... But the fact that bluegrass hasnt talked about them good or bad makes me wonder... lol
#168
07-10-2014, 11:02 AM
Bclax, I have had my '01 with the 5.4 for about 11 years now and it had 31K miles when purchased and it currently has 154K on the clock. During this time I have replaced a total of 3 coils on it and have not had any issues with the rest. Ironically the last one was replaced a few weeks ago on the #3 cylinder and it was an original OEM Ford one that more than likely came with the motor from the factory.
As far as signs of it going bad, the last one had an intermittent skip that became more noticeable as the motor warmed up. When it was changed, the boot was cracked and the spring inside of the boot was heavily corroded.
As far as signs of it going bad, the last one had an intermittent skip that became more noticeable as the motor warmed up. When it was changed, the boot was cracked and the spring inside of the boot was heavily corroded.
#169
07-10-2014, 07:09 PM
maaaaannnn I got my Craftsman 20890 fix-assist scantool today and can not at all find the TestID$53 Module $10 to cycle through all the cylinders live data wise to catch the missfire...
either im using it wrong or its not going to do what I had expected it to... as I thought i could just hook it up go drive and read the scanner when it jerks on each cylinder module and see which one fluctuates the test value...
I went into non-continuous test's but saw nothing close to that testID listed there... I did see missfireCynldr1-8 in there which gave 4 screens for each cylinder but those values there were always 0-0-0 for test-min-max returned.... there was one missfiredata ontop of the 8 cylinders but that one only had 5 screens all being 0-0-0 with exception of 1 that had higher values but they were all 3 the same test-min-max still too.
either im using it wrong or its not going to do what I had expected it to... as I thought i could just hook it up go drive and read the scanner when it jerks on each cylinder module and see which one fluctuates the test value...
I went into non-continuous test's but saw nothing close to that testID listed there... I did see missfireCynldr1-8 in there which gave 4 screens for each cylinder but those values there were always 0-0-0 for test-min-max returned.... there was one missfiredata ontop of the 8 cylinders but that one only had 5 screens all being 0-0-0 with exception of 1 that had higher values but they were all 3 the same test-min-max still too.
#170
07-10-2014, 08:39 PM
When you enter non continuous testing, it is Mode 6 your in.
You want test 53 to look at the misfire monitors. Step to the screen that shows test 53, highlite it, press key to enter that test
When you get that to come up, then cycle through all 8 cylinders and look at the misfire counts.
They will be displayed in Hexadecimal notation and tell you in English if the count is too high.
Forget module 10 on this Scanner. The Ford program in the Scanner takes care of it.
Good luck.
You want test 53 to look at the misfire monitors. Step to the screen that shows test 53, highlite it, press key to enter that test
When you get that to come up, then cycle through all 8 cylinders and look at the misfire counts.
They will be displayed in Hexadecimal notation and tell you in English if the count is too high.
Forget module 10 on this Scanner. The Ford program in the Scanner takes care of it.
Good luck.
#171
07-10-2014, 08:55 PM
When you enter non continuous testing, it is Mode 6 your in.
You want test 53 to look at the misfire monitors. Step to the screen that shows test 53, highlite it, press key to enter that test
When you get that to come up, then cycle through all 8 cylinders and look at the misfire counts.
They will be displayed in Hexadecimal notation and tell you in English if the count is too high.
Forget module 10 on this Scanner. The Ford program in the Scanner takes care of it.
Good luck.
You want test 53 to look at the misfire monitors. Step to the screen that shows test 53, highlite it, press key to enter that test
When you get that to come up, then cycle through all 8 cylinders and look at the misfire counts.
They will be displayed in Hexadecimal notation and tell you in English if the count is too high.
Forget module 10 on this Scanner. The Ford program in the Scanner takes care of it.
Good luck.
options to choose from... missfireData, plus MisFireCyl1-8
MisfireData#14 of the 5 look like this one
MissFireData#2... note that this one is the only one in misfiredata 5 screens that has the odd value
Cylinder#1 screen1of4
Cylinder#1 screen 3of4
#172
07-11-2014, 12:13 AM
On that model Scanner it appears they changed the program and different displays show up.
I'm sure the cylinder monitors are there but in a different format.
Select misfire data then press left direction arrow if you have not done so.
Misfire is test 53, so all cylinders should be accessible.
Some times you need to wait for the PCM to download the data and press the arrow key long enough to register the request.
If you can't get it to come up, try to set up in trap function and catch the misfire while driving. If successful, service the cylinder it shows then retest again with a drive. If anymore shows, do the trap again to see what data shows..
Good luck.
I'm sure the cylinder monitors are there but in a different format.
Select misfire data then press left direction arrow if you have not done so.
Misfire is test 53, so all cylinders should be accessible.
Some times you need to wait for the PCM to download the data and press the arrow key long enough to register the request.
If you can't get it to come up, try to set up in trap function and catch the misfire while driving. If successful, service the cylinder it shows then retest again with a drive. If anymore shows, do the trap again to see what data shows..
Good luck.
#173
07-11-2014, 05:21 AM
On that model Scanner it appears they changed the program and different displays show up.
I'm sure the cylinder monitors are there but in a different format.
Select misfire data then press left direction arrow if you have not done so.
Misfire is test 53, so all cylinders should be accessible.
Some times you need to wait for the PCM to download the data and press the arrow key long enough to register the request.
If you can't get it to come up, try to set up in trap function and catch the misfire while driving. If successful, service the cylinder it shows then retest again with a drive. If anymore shows, do the trap again to see what data shows..
Good luck.
I'm sure the cylinder monitors are there but in a different format.
Select misfire data then press left direction arrow if you have not done so.
Misfire is test 53, so all cylinders should be accessible.
Some times you need to wait for the PCM to download the data and press the arrow key long enough to register the request.
If you can't get it to come up, try to set up in trap function and catch the misfire while driving. If successful, service the cylinder it shows then retest again with a drive. If anymore shows, do the trap again to see what data shows..
Good luck.
I guess mine being a 2005 F150 or the fact it looks like craftsman updated the 20890 scantool some is the reason for the display difference...
If i pull up noncontinuous test will it continue to log data as I drive and input the max test value in the output display or would i have to recreate the issue at the exact time i open the test to capture it?
The item that threw me off was that 'MisfireData' test menu only had 5 screens and i let it sit on that one for awhile... Then throw in the other 'Misfire Cyl#1' test menu options that show options for each 8 cylinders and each of those show 4 screens within each....
#174
07-11-2014, 09:27 AM
If you are saying the truck is a 2005, then the game is totally different for display.
I assumed we were talking up to 2003 model year.
A 2005 uses a different OBDII system called CAN so the way the Scanner works will be different..
You should still see the misfire data but in different display form.
The user book often does not tell you about specific makes and how to interpret the data.
Using the Scanner often depends on your knowledge of the type of system in use when going beyond just the codes displayed or simple readiness indications.
Good luck.
I assumed we were talking up to 2003 model year.
A 2005 uses a different OBDII system called CAN so the way the Scanner works will be different..
You should still see the misfire data but in different display form.
The user book often does not tell you about specific makes and how to interpret the data.
Using the Scanner often depends on your knowledge of the type of system in use when going beyond just the codes displayed or simple readiness indications.
Good luck.
#175
07-11-2014, 05:02 PM
If you are saying the truck is a 2005, then the game is totally different for display.
I assumed we were talking up to 2003 model year.
A 2005 uses a different OBDII system called CAN so the way the Scanner works will be different..
You should still see the misfire data but in different display form.
The user book often does not tell you about specific makes and how to interpret the data.
Using the Scanner often depends on your knowledge of the type of system in use when going beyond just the codes displayed or simple readiness indications.
Good luck.
I assumed we were talking up to 2003 model year.
A 2005 uses a different OBDII system called CAN so the way the Scanner works will be different..
You should still see the misfire data but in different display form.
The user book often does not tell you about specific makes and how to interpret the data.
Using the Scanner often depends on your knowledge of the type of system in use when going beyond just the codes displayed or simple readiness indications.
Good luck.
Ahhh so I need to read up on the description on the Ford manual then here....
looks like they split out the cylinders and each is 4 screens within... I suppose the only way to capture it is kick off non continuous test mode at the exact moment of the misfire to see it there...
when I did live recording there is no missfire stat just the sensors which determining a missfire off air/fuel and all that is out of my realm.
#176
07-14-2014, 02:26 PM
#177
07-14-2014, 04:50 PM
I would think there is a Trap mode to set up.
You should be able to set the trap to trigger at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of the event.
In the 97 to 2003 model years for this Scanner, that can be done as well as look direct at Mode 6, test 53 at all cylinders monitors.
.
I am 99% sure this is what you have for the issue.
1. The system goes into EGR above 45 at light throttle.
2. The EGR opens to create Air/ Fuel ratios above 22 to 1.
At the same time the fuel is cut to the injection to create this lean condition.
When the mixture is lean the igniton has to advance to begin the slower flame travel in the cylinders so it becomes transparent to the driver..
A note is prudent here. Normally a lean mixture (minus air only) ignites with a faster flame front.
In this specific case is in not the lack of air but the pollution of the mix with exhaust gas. This slows the flame front instead of accelerating it.
3. Under these conditions it takes coil voltage far above normal to fire the lean mixture.
4. If any coil has low output a misfire occurs that you feel.
Since this is not a 'hard' fault it goes away when driving conditions change. The PCM cancels the count leading to a code and light but it does get registered in the cylinder monitors which does not set code or CEL.
You either have to look at the monitors or trap the occurrence during the driving conditions that bring the misfire out.
The misfire is seen by the PCM measuring the crank rotation time for each cylinder every time. A slower rotation time is never missed when compared to all other cylinders.
That's it, there is no more to tell or offer.
Good luck.
You should be able to set the trap to trigger at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of the event.
In the 97 to 2003 model years for this Scanner, that can be done as well as look direct at Mode 6, test 53 at all cylinders monitors.
.
I am 99% sure this is what you have for the issue.
1. The system goes into EGR above 45 at light throttle.
2. The EGR opens to create Air/ Fuel ratios above 22 to 1.
At the same time the fuel is cut to the injection to create this lean condition.
When the mixture is lean the igniton has to advance to begin the slower flame travel in the cylinders so it becomes transparent to the driver..
A note is prudent here. Normally a lean mixture (minus air only) ignites with a faster flame front.
In this specific case is in not the lack of air but the pollution of the mix with exhaust gas. This slows the flame front instead of accelerating it.
3. Under these conditions it takes coil voltage far above normal to fire the lean mixture.
4. If any coil has low output a misfire occurs that you feel.
Since this is not a 'hard' fault it goes away when driving conditions change. The PCM cancels the count leading to a code and light but it does get registered in the cylinder monitors which does not set code or CEL.
You either have to look at the monitors or trap the occurrence during the driving conditions that bring the misfire out.
The misfire is seen by the PCM measuring the crank rotation time for each cylinder every time. A slower rotation time is never missed when compared to all other cylinders.
That's it, there is no more to tell or offer.
Good luck.
#178
08-04-2014, 02:51 PM
#179
08-07-2014, 10:42 AM
#180
08-07-2014, 11:32 AM