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Old 11-22-2010, 06:48 PM
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What good are oil samples??

I got good news today. I really haven"t talked about it much here but I've had high copper and iron on my oil tests for the last four samples. They have been going up so I asked at FS2500 where I bought my oil filter bypass system from what they thought about it. They sugested I do another test on the oil where they look at it under a microscope instead of just a chemical test that they always do on a regular test. The guy told me that I was probably wasteing my money and it would come back with the same results. IT DIDN'T and I'm sure happy about it!! I even posted in a thread last night about the cost of a rebuild. Whew, I can forget about that! OK, I have been spending money all along for oil tests that were wrong. I spent another $70 for a test to prove the other tests were BS. In conclusion, I should have saved my money and did another mod or two, LOL!! What do you guys think??

PS The oil was Schaeffer's 7000 run for 10,700 miles. The microscope expensive test showed normal on all counts!
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Last edited by oldbird1965; 11-22-2010 at 07:25 PM. Reason: forgot
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:10 PM
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Hard to say. Most of the numbers are greek to me, but I get one done every once in a while just to check on how things look (no bypass set up for me). How long have you been running the Schaeffers? I've heard that wear metals increase the first couple of changes while it cleans things out on a regular oil change. I'm not sure how that translates to extended drain intervals and a bypass set up.

Who did all the testing for both methods? Did you ever consider getting another lab to do the chemical analysis?
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:35 PM
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Chris, ALS Tribology, a company recommended by FS2500 bypass people, did the first three tests and then I found out that Schaeffer's will provide a free test. So, on the last sample drawn, two tests were done on it and both said that cooper and iron were high. The next test, the microscope test, was also done on this same oil I just drained and changed. I've been running Rotella syn for 40 to 50K miles. All those tests came back as the volicity (sp) weight of oil was breaking down. I read on a thread here that Schaeffer's oil will not break down with our hpop's smashing the heck out of the oil pumping it out at such a high psi and according to the tests, it didn't. So, anyway, I think the motor was cleaned out plenty before the last Schaeffer's run.
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Last edited by oldbird1965; 11-22-2010 at 08:38 PM. Reason: edit
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:58 PM
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Glenn, I been meaning to ask you where you are getting your distro for the Schaffers.. The closest I am coming up with is Tuscon, and I am not really thrilled about that! I have gone with Blackstone for mine, but I am so new to this testing that I wont be able to say one way or another with definate certainty.

Congrats on the excellent feedback though!
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:02 PM
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What did the wear metals look like on the Rotella? Was it also tested at similar miles? With the same bypass system?

How elevated were your numbers? Did they start before or after the Adrenaline? Could it be HPOP related? Can you post the lab results here?

Again I don't know much about what the numbers mean, but I know people to ask for their opinion on lab results. If you post your test results or links to them, I'll get a fellow 7.3 owner who has been throught the Schaeffer training to explain what he sees in the numbers and how that compares to what the microscope test is telling you. (his opinion won't be biased. He's an engineer first)
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:58 PM
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[quote=Midwest Dually;9591309]Glenn, I been meaning to ask you where you are getting your distro for the Schaffers.. The closest I am coming up with is Tuscon, and I am not really thrilled about that! I have gone with Blackstone for mine, but I am so new to this testing that I wont be able to say one way or another with definate certainty.

Congrats on the excellent feedback though![/quote

I've been getting my oil from Parker Oil Company, they have a branch here. I used to use Blackstone but FS2500 talked me into there company so they can also get a copy and help me monitor it. Even though I've been getting the tests, unless there is a high number I don't pay must attention either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F350-6 View Post
What did the wear metals look like on the Rotella? Was it also tested at similar miles? With the same bypass system?

How elevated were your numbers? Did they start before or after the Adrenaline? Could it be HPOP related? Can you post the lab results here?

Again I don't know much about what the numbers mean, but I know people to ask for their opinion on lab results. If you post your test results or links to them, I'll get a fellow 7.3 owner who has been throught the Schaeffer training to explain what he sees in the numbers and how that compares to what the microscope test is telling you. (his opinion won't be biased. He's an engineer first)
The cooper and iead have been gradualy going up and the last three Rotella tests were considered high. My change intervals have been between 7 & 10K. Yes, with the same bypass system being used.

I wish I could post them, my regular computer has the scanning software in it and has broken. I'm using this Dell mini which doesn't and enough memory in it to download the software. On the ALS test it shows cooper at 104, Schaeffer is 101 and anything over 40 is high. Sorry, I've been saying iron, I meant to say lead. The ALS shows lead at 42, Schaeffer at 35 and anything over 35 is high. I don't think the adrenaline has anything to do with it, it started going up before the install.
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The Mare 97 dually cc, s366 turbo, stage II's, IC, studs, springs, rods, JW auto, 4:10 LS, efuel, FS2500 bypass oil filter, HVHF IDM, IH WP, 6.0 trans cooler & fan, MBRP 4", SD dual tensioner, AFE intake, 220 amp alt, 38G rear tank, soundproofed, 3 TS chips
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:30 AM
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Forgot to mention, the schaeffer oil did not shear as bad as the rotella syn did.
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The Mare 97 dually cc, s366 turbo, stage II's, IC, studs, springs, rods, JW auto, 4:10 LS, efuel, FS2500 bypass oil filter, HVHF IDM, IH WP, 6.0 trans cooler & fan, MBRP 4", SD dual tensioner, AFE intake, 220 amp alt, 38G rear tank, soundproofed, 3 TS chips
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbird1965 View Post
Forgot to mention, the schaeffer oil did not shear as bad as the rotella syn did.
That's interesting I wonder how that would work in my truck. The dual pumps shear oil in about 3000 miles and there is a difference on how it runs. How much is shaffers and how much was the fs2500?

Personally I think the tests are kind of a waste of money because if your engine did need a rebuild I would never spend thousands on a rebuild just because an oil sample told me to. Id run the engine till it wouldn't anymore then do it!
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:44 AM
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Talking

I periodically have Blackstone check oil for my PSD. I have had the oil in my 98 Ranger Gasser tested and found a high concentration of anti-freeze in the oil. I have had it tested at each oil change, 3-5K and it still tested positive for coolant. Changed the manifold gaskets and viola, problem solved.

My point is that I was not losing coolant in any great amounts, I didn't realize the lose. Without the test(s) I probably would have continued to drive it with the coolant eating away at the internals of the engine and doing all sorts of damage.

The costs of tests out weighs the expense of major damage. JMHO>

Rog
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:09 AM
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Blackstone.

They are known to be reliable, and they keep a history.

I don't know much about your bypass though.

Whats the micron rating on it?
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:32 AM
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I'm happy to look over your results and let you know what I think from what I know about oil analysis and analytical testing. I'm having a little trouble following the sequence of your testing, though, so if you could get me the information in the attached PDF file, I can make more accurately evaluate your situation.

At the same time, I'll also say that you have to be careful about what lab you use for analysis. I've been completely turned off from OilGuard's lab due to how they "caclulate" some of their numbers based on generic assumptions, and the results from them have not been consistent as compared to repeat testing on the same samples from other labs. As good as Blackstone's reputation is, I've also had some recommendations from them which were rather knee-jerk reactions where they did not accurately assess the context of my samples (brand, the fact taht I switched brands, miles on oil, etc.). Not bashing Blackstone at all, but my confidence in them has decreased.

Schaeffer is now testing my oil, but I'm using their third party lab for that testing because I like keeping the fox out of the hen house. I also plan to periodically have other labs evaluate samples which are split between Schaeffer and the "other lab". It's not that I don't trust Schaeffer to be honest or accutrately assess my samples, because I really do trust them. Rather, I want to be in a position to demonstrate to my customers that I have data from independent, uninterested, no dog in the fight, third party resources to back up and validate my results from Schaeffer.

As for the value of UOA's, I have several artciles that I'll post which speak to this issue, but I'll have to do that this evening.
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File Type: pdf Oil Analysis Evaluation Table.pdf (6.8 KB, 24 views)
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbird1965 View Post
I wish I could post them, my regular computer has the scanning software in it and has broken.
Got a digital camera? Use the little flower button setting for details up close and just snap a picture of the UOA, then add the pic as an attachment.

Edit: I'm not a photographer so I don't know what the setting is called, or even if it's really a flower next to the setting, but the cameras I've seen all have the flower looking drawing next to the correct setting for close up pics.
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:54 PM
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Justin, the FS2500 is around $400 and the oil is $18 a gallon.

Rog, I know what your saying and I'll continue to have it checked. I'm just confused by this chemical test verse the microspose test.

I did Blackstone, ASL and Schaeffers and all of them keep records Talyn. Micron, IIRC, is 2. FS2500.com

Interesting info Pete. I'll work on that info, maybe try that little flower Chris.
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The Mule-96 2WD F250 EC/LB auto, Lots of Mods!! Semi retired, still runs great after years of pulling!!
The Mare 97 dually cc, s366 turbo, stage II's, IC, studs, springs, rods, JW auto, 4:10 LS, efuel, FS2500 bypass oil filter, HVHF IDM, IH WP, 6.0 trans cooler & fan, MBRP 4", SD dual tensioner, AFE intake, 220 amp alt, 38G rear tank, soundproofed, 3 TS chips
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:44 PM
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Here goes with camera pictures. Its interesting that both samples say it could be copper core leaching (CCL) of the oil cooler. Last year I changed my turbo because I thought it might be that wearing out, it felt a little loose. The Schaeffer report didn't flag the lead like the ASL? Hope you can read these Pete!

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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The Mule-96 2WD F250 EC/LB auto, Lots of Mods!! Semi retired, still runs great after years of pulling!!
The Mare 97 dually cc, s366 turbo, stage II's, IC, studs, springs, rods, JW auto, 4:10 LS, efuel, FS2500 bypass oil filter, HVHF IDM, IH WP, 6.0 trans cooler & fan, MBRP 4", SD dual tensioner, AFE intake, 220 amp alt, 38G rear tank, soundproofed, 3 TS chips
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:24 AM
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Thanks, Glenn. I can read them. It will take me a couple days to sort through the data (in-laws in town for the holidays, son home from college working on his truck, etc.). I'll pull it together and see what I can make sense of from it all.
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:24 AM
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